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KIALA KAZEBEE: We all right?
FELICIA DAY: Hey!
We are live here at "Vaginal Fantasy Book Club." What is
this thing, you ask?
Well, that's a good question.
It is a club where monthly, me and my awesome co-hosts, we
read a romance genre book and discuss it.
And sometimes, we get to the alt book as well.
We have the regular suspects here.
Bonnie Burton.
BONNIE BURTON: Hello.
FELICIA DAY: We have Kiala Kazebee.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Hello.
FELICIA DAY: Veronica Belmont with the lovely
Harry Potter glasses.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, they're not round.
FELICIA DAY: No, they're adorable.
BONNIE BURTON: They're cute.
VERONICA BELMONT: Thank you.
[VIDEO PLAYING OFFSCREEN]
FELICIA DAY: Oh, who has it open?
VERONICA BELMONT: Someone has their video open.
FELICIA DAY: It's me again.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, it's you?
KIALA KAZEBEE: Is it you?
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, you.
KIALA KAZEBEE: You're watching yourself.
FELICIA DAY: As a guest, we have a special guest for the
first time for "Vaginal Fantasy Hangout."
It is Hannah Hart!
[CHEERING]
HANNAH HART: Hello.
What special effects, Google Hangout.
That was really good special effects.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: You know that people copied your
fingerprint, and now they're going to impersonate you.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
You're screwed.
HANNAH HART: They're going to have a whole lot of debt, and
collection agencies will be hounding them.
Our book's on you!
FELICIA DAY: Thank you so much for being here, Hannah.
You know, remember we had this discussion literally you were
going to come on if we read--
what just happened?
KIALA KAZEBEE: Something made a rude noise.
HANNAH HART: I shut my window.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh.
FELICIA DAY: And Bonnie is pouring a whole bottle of wine
into a glass.
HANNAH HART: Oh, snap!
Bonnie, you have to make sounds so that it shows you--
BONNIE BURTON: Gulp, gulp, gulp, gulp.
You don't understand.
This is the giant, giant wine glass that's
as big as my head.
HANNAH HART: Oh, my.
I got to get one of those.
BONNIE BURTON: You know what, Hannah?
You can get them at Target.
HANNAH HART: Really?
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
It's called "wine bottle in a glass." It's a
really cryptic name.
HANNAH HART: My life is forever changed.
I love it.
Oh.
Ow, Bonnie!
Damn!
FELICIA DAY: I know.
By about 8:45, we'll definitely see
the effects of that.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, you'll notice.
FELICIA DAY: What are we all drinking tonight, actually?
Let's go down the list.
What kind of wine are we drinking?
BONNIE BURTON: OK, so I just poured an entire bottle of
Harvest Girl.
I got it just for you, Hannah, because it's got a cute girl
*** clad.
Well, it's for all of us.
Let's be honest.
It's a win-win for everybody.
HANNAH HART: Go, Rond.
BONNIE BURTON: That was free wine.
One of our fans, Brian, gave me this at Comic Con, so that
was free wine.
And then in honor of Felicia, I also have tiny wine.
FELICIA DAY: Oh!
HANNAH HART: Aw.
BONNIE BURTON: So I have both.
I go both ways.
VERONICA BELMONT: Why don't you guys reach through the
Internets and give her the tiny wine.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, here we go.
FELICIA DAY: I wish we could get that rose.
BONNIE BURTON: Take it, Felicia.
Take it.
Take it.
Grab it.
FELICIA DAY: [MAKING STRAINING SOUNDS]
BONNIE BURTON: Grab it.
FELICIA DAY: Oh, my-- oops!
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, it's like "Ring." It would be like,
oh, my god!
That was amazing!
BONNIE BURTON: Yay!
FELICIA DAY: That was like a trick on--
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
That's how Google Hangout works for us.
VERONICA BELMONT: I met a guy who gave me his business card
on fire yesterday.
KIALA KAZEBEE: What?
VERONICA BELMONT: At the gym.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Was that-- what?
VERONICA BELMONT: He was like, here's my card.
Foosh!
HANNAH HART: Guy working out of the gym--
that's pretty hot.
VERONICA BELMONT: I was impressed and also--
KIALA KAZEBEE: Your gym is different than my gym.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
Is it at Hogwarts?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes, it is a gym at Hogwarts.
It's pretty amazing.
But I digress.
I'm sorry.
HANNAH HART: Your gym is different from my
gym in that it exists.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: Hannah, do you not go to the gym?
HANNAH HART: Do I not go to the gym?
No, I don't go to the gym.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, god, I hate you.
HANNAH HART: I work out the old-fashioned way.
Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: Welcome to the gun show.
HANNAH HART: Yeah.
Tickets available at the kiosk.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I hate all of you.
I'm vegan.
I work out all the time.
I'm still 20 pounds overweight.
BONNIE BURTON: Hey, me, too.
The only Jim I know is my favorite
bartender at Lucky 13.
VERONICA BELMONT: All right.
Let's not body hate.
We're not here to body hate.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, no.
I love my body.
FELICIA DAY: We're not here to body hate.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I'm very healthy.
I'm a very healthy lady.
VERONICA BELMONT: You're beautiful.
BONNIE BURTON: I'm not even close to healthy.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Thank you.
FELICIA DAY: What else is everyone else drinking?
Hannah, what are you drinking tonight?
HANNAH HART: I've got, in a little scotch glass which is
very, very cute, I'm drinking-- a very rare
occasion here--
my wine club, called w.com/harto, has sent me a
sauvignon blanc.
And so I'm giving it a whirl.
And since I don't really like white wine that much, it's not
going to be a drunken night for me.
That's my trick.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh!
HANNAH HART: That's my trick to myself.
It's like, if I don't want to get drunk, I'll order a beer,
or wine, or white wine, because I know I'll be like,
mmm, mmm, mmm.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: Aw, that's sad.
I can't drink red wine, so I guess we're wine buddies in
that we're opposite.
BONNIE BURTON: Really?
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: I don't understand.
Why can't you-- is it headaches?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, they give people headaches.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
It's kind of a drag.
With about you, Kiala?
Kiala, what are you drinking tonight?
KIALA KAZEBEE: I have a little tiny bit of rose.
And then I have a big, hot pink pirate cup of ice water,
because I have a cold.
So I'm not really drinking.
BONNIE BURTON: Well, you could do hot toddy.
You can drink tea and whiskey.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I could.
HANNAH HART: And honey and lemon.
KIALA KAZEBEE: But it's really hot in here.
VERONICA BELMONT: That's why she's got a Beyonce fan.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I know.
So alcohol hasn't sounded that great to me lately.
So I've just sort of--
HANNAH HART: Where are you?
Why is it so hot?
KIALA KAZEBEE: Portland, Oregon.
HANNAH HART: Why is it so hot?
KIALA KAZEBEE: It's just we're having a really hot summer.
FELICIA DAY: It's really weird.
I've never been to Portland, Kiala.
This year I want to come up and visit.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yes, please!
Oh, my god, I'll take you everywhere!
HANNAH HART: This week on
"False Promises." [LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: I know.
I know.
KIALA KAZEBEE: And I'm going to quit drinking.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: You certainly made up for it at VidCon.
What about you, Veronica?
You guys were--
VERONICA BELMONT: I was what?
What?
Drinking heavily at VidCon?
FELICIA DAY: No, I'm saying it as an awesome thing.
KIALA KAZEBEE: We were coping.
VERONICA BELMONT: We were coping with Teen Con 2013.
Hey, VidCon's great, but nothing will make you feel
older in your life than going to VidCon.
HANNAH HART: I felt old at VidCon.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
And you're what?
You're 26?
HANNAH HART: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
I learned that from the "LA Times" today.
HANNAH HART: Wow!
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: Anyway, I'm drinking Hangtime Pinot Noir
2011, from right here in sunny California.
And it's quite delicious, thank you.
HANNAH HART: Ooh.
VERONICA BELMONT: We'll see how it mixes
with my migraine medicine.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yay!
FELICIA DAY: So Kiala's sick and you've got a migraine?
What else is going on with everyone tonight?
HANNAH HART: Bonnie's here to bring it.
She poured an entire bottle of wine into a cup.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
And I'm healthy.
I'm healthy.
I had an allergic reaction to my Katy Perry eyelash glue.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, that would be a big problem.
VERONICA BELMONT: You didn't tell me that's what caused it.
Now, it all makes sense.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
We call it drag queen rash.
Where sometimes, if you get false eyelash
glue in your ducts--
in your ear ducts, not quacky kind--
then you'll have an allergy.
Not that we own ducks, but you know what I'm talking about.
Anyway, so, yeah.
So I'm fine.
So I'm healthy and drinking a lot.
And, yay.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yay.
BONNIE BURTON: I don't have any cold.
I don't have any virals.
I don't know.
FELICIA DAY: No, that's good.
OK, so guys, we're going to start discussing
our book in a minute.
And after we start discussing it, if you post comments in
the chat beside that, we'll try to pick out questions to
address and post them.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, wait.
Felicia, you didn't say what you were drinking.
FELICIA DAY: Oh, I'm drinking whatever is in this tiny
bottle of wine, which is a pinot grigio.
BONNIE BURTON: There you go.
FELICIA DAY: There's not a lot of choice when you only drink
tiny wines.
So this is class.
BONNIE BURTON: But there is.
Well, it depends.
VERONICA BELMONT: What about those amazing twist off ones?
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, that Sutter Home
has them in all flavors.
They're just not very classy.
FELICIA DAY: Oh.
Well, I do like classy.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, OK.
HANNAH HART: That's why she invited us all to be a part of
this beautiful show.
FELICIA DAY: Called "Vaginal Fantasy," which my mom thought
was *** for a while.
Anyway, I'm going to give a shout-out to the hangouts that
happened this month.
We have local meetups.
If you guys want to join the book club, we
have a Goodreads forum.
And you join up, and everybody talks about the books and
everything under the sun there on the forums.
And a lot of people meet up.
So last month, Beaver Dreams met in Canada and they met up
San Francisco, New York City, Dayton, Ohio, and Ottawa.
And then this next month, on August 9,
there's a UK Google Hangout.
There is an August 10 Denver Hangout, August 11 San
Francisco Hangout, North Hollywood on August 18,
Dayton, Ohio, on August 25, and New York
City on August 31.
So if you want to join up with one of those groups or create
your own, just go to the forums and there's a local
hangout area that you can post your event.
HANNAH HART: Wow, that's so smart.
Felicia, how do you moderate your forums?
FELICIA DAY: We have a couple of awesome moderators.
Vicki is one who maintains a lot of it.
And I don't know.
It's a Goodreads forum, so there's not a
lot of spam on it.
HANNAH HART: Oh, OK.
Great.
FELICIA DAY: Do you have problems with your forums?
HANNAH HART: I don't have a forum, but I
want to have a forum.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh.
BONNIE BURTON: You could have a forum.
HANNAH HART: Right now, the Harto *** community is just
a Tumbler hashtag.
And then that ranges anywhere from like graphic fan fiction
to, hey guys, I want to do a volunteer event.
So I'm scrolling through.
And it's like, oh, yay!
They're doing volunteer-- oh, my god!
I'm tied to the bed!
[LAUGHTER]
BONNIE BURTON: If only you could merge the two.
HANNAH HART: I don't want to get viral--sandbag.
FELICIA DAY: I don't know if you need both of those things.
I would suggest creating a vanilla forum on your website,
and then basically, community members will do it.
That's how we do it on the "Geek and Sundry" forum.
We have community members be moderators.
And you only need a couple people to go through every
day, and sort of take down spam, and
other things like that.
HANNAH HART: I like it.
FELICIA DAY: Let's talk afterwards.
Hmm.
VERONICA BELMONT: Hmm.
FELICIA DAY: Anyway, OK.
So our main book this month, this month's theme was LGBT.
We wanted to celebrate DOMA being overturned, and Pride,
and everything like that, so that's was why we picked this
month's theme-- or it was July's theme.
And we're very excited to have Hannah join because I
mentioned to her I love "Tipping the Velvet." It's one
of my favorite books.
HANNAH HART: And I mentioned to her that was one of the
worst movies I'd ever seen.
[LAUGHTER]
BONNIE BURTON: This is the book.
FELICIA DAY: Yep.
So here's the book.
And I will read the description.
And we'll get into what everybody thought about it.
But here it is.
"The heroine of this audacious first novel knows her destiny
and seems content with it.
Her place is in her father's seaside restaurant, shucking
shellfish and stirring soup.
At night, she often ventures to the nearby music hall.
Not that she has illusions of being more than an audience
member, but the moment she spies a new male
impersonator--
still something of a curiosity in England in her years of
innocence come to an end and life transformation begins."
It is a historical romance, which we don't do a lot of
historicals, and a lot of people debated whether this
was even-- oh, we have two people holding the book up.
A lot of people debated whether this was even a
"Vaginal Fantasy" book because we mostly do fantasy, and sci
fi, and all that stuff.
VERONICA BELMONT: I brought that up, yeah.
FELICIA DAY: You brought that up.
Well, whatever.
VERONICA BELMONT: Because I'm a snob.
FELICIA DAY: You're a snob about historicals or what?
VERONICA BELMONT: No, I'm a snob about sci-fi/fantasy.
HANNAH HART: It's definitely not sci-fi and it's definitely
not fantasy.
BONNIE BURTON: I think you could say it's fantasy because
the chances of lower class and upper class meeting up like
this in Victorian London probably wouldn't happen.
I consider Dickens fantasy because there's no way half of
those relationships would ever happen.
VERONICA BELMONT: I thought you were about to say a dirty
word, but you were just saying Charles Dickens.
BONNIE BURTON: I'm behaving!
It was a theme--
VERONICA BELMONT: No, I know.
It's just the guarding started going off.
HANNAH HART: You can consider it fantasy because of
everyone's proper hygiene.
BONNIE BURTON: Yes, I agree.
FELICIA DAY: Or--
I mean, we get into this later, the historical accuracy
of the lesbian sort of underground community.
A lot of people brought that up.
But by the way, we've done historical before.
We did Eloisa James last year, so sometimes we'll add
historical.
We're never going to do like a contemporary romance about a
guy, like a NASCAR driver, OK?
I assure you that.
HANNAH HART: Does that exist?
KIALA KAZEBEE: I think historical romance counts as
fantasy, because it's a fantasy to me.
Any kind of costumed drama, you know, it's not reality.
VERONICA BELMONT: It's historical fiction.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah.
It's not our reality and it wasn't their reality.
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm not agreeing with you.
I'm saying it's historical fiction.
It's different.
KIALA KAZEBEE: No.
That's great that you agree with me, Veronica.
VERONICA BELMONT: Ahhh!
KIALA KAZEBEE: Thanks.
Thanks for proving my point.
I appreciate that.
VERONICA BELMONT: You're welcome.
BONNIE BURTON: And so it begins.
This is when mom and dad fight.
This is why I drink a lot of wine.
VERONICA BELMONT: Wait, am I mommy or daddy?
BONNIE BURTON: You're totally daddy.
HANNAH HART: Definitely daddy, Veronica.
Sorry.
BONNIE BURTON: You got daddy written all over you--
in a good way.
VERONICA BELMONT: I don't know what that means.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, that's all right.
I'll explain it later.
KIALA KAZEBEE: You're a little more aggressive than I am.
BONNIE BURTON: But I do want mention, since we read the
book and everybody knows I have a
Benedict Cumberbatch problem--
HANNAH HART: Oh, yeah!
Cumberbitch?
BONNIE BURTON: He's in the very bad "Tipping the Velvet"
BBC production which is not really following
the book that well.
HANNAH HART: I'm Nan.
Oh, I love oysters.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, I love oysters.
VERONICA BELMONT: I haven't seen the movie.
I'm so sad.
BONNIE BURTON: Well, there's just three episodes.
It's like a miniseries, so there's just three episodes,
like "Sherlock." Only Cumberbatch is really young in
it, and he's really--
FELICIA DAY: Very young.
BONNIE BURTON: --sexy and goofy.
But I did post the link.
FELICIA DAY: I'm going to try to find it.
I'm going to try to find it.
OK, so let's go down the line and say what everybody thought
about the book in general, and then we'll get into detail
about the characters and everything as I find the
Cumberbatch--
I want to screen share the picture of him as a
young, young lad.
Bonnie, we'll start from the left.
What did you think--
BONNIE BURTON: I liked it.
I read it when it came out.
So I read it, I think, in the late '90s.
HANNAH HART: Oh, wow!
BONNIE BURTON: So 1998 is when it was published.
I must have read it in 1999, I think.
And I really liked it.
I really love historical fiction.
And even though it's probably not totally accurate, I like
that whole lower class meeting up with high society.
And I'm a big fan of the history of male impersonators
during that time and during the '20s, so I was always a
big fan of "Victor Victoria" and all that.
So this, I loved it.
I thought it was a great book.
And I got into it a lot more than I--
why is Kiala looking weird at me?
KIALA KAZEBEE: I'm sorry.
No, I'm not.
I'm actually looking at Hannah.
It just looks like I'm looking at you.
BONNIE BURTON: I'm seeing Kiala's hair blow and her
looking confused.
I'm like, am I scaring everyone?
Or is Hannah just doing something awful?
KIALA KAZEBEE: You're talking so loudly that
it's blowing my hair.
No, you're not.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, right.
Sorry.
KIALA KAZEBEE: No.
I'm listening to you.
BONNIE BURTON: No.
I really liked it.
I thought the characters were pretty interesting.
It's just I'm a huge fan of Dickens.
And so his characters are very cliche--
well, I wouldn't say cliche, but over the top.
And these characters, like you had Diana who was this over
the top, scary, wealthy woman who had issues.
And then you had obviously Kitty being the male
impersonator, and Walter.
And Florence seeming to be like the innocent or whatever.
There seemed to be some pretty ardent, straightforward
characters that weren't too changing it up.
So if you like that kind of fiction, I
think you'll like this.
I thought the sex scenes were decent.
I mean, it wasn't like dragons in a cave ***.
But it caught my attention.
So I liked it.
I actually thought we were being kind of classy reading
this book, as opposed to the other stuff we read.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: It's nice to be classy, isn't it?
It feels good inside.
BONNIE BURTON: They teach this book.
They teach this book in class, in college now.
So it's like--
HANNAH HART: They do.
BONNIE BURTON: Like, oh, this is like we're doing a college
course edition of "Vaginal Fantasy."
VERONICA BELMONT: I wish we had read that my
masculinities class.
HANNAH HART: Is that were you learned to be a daddy?
VERONICA BELMONT: That's where I learned how to be a daddy.
Actually, I think that's really funny that
you guys say that.
Because all of my girlfriends, ever since we were in college,
have always said that I'm like the boyfriend of the group.
If someone didn't have a boyfriend, I'm like the de
facto boyfriend.
I'll, like, open their doors for them, and threaten to
break other people's kneecaps, and things like that.
HANNAH HART: All of my female friends have always said that
I'm like the girlfriend, waiting for
them to pay for dinner.
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: We can have it all ways.
FELICIA DAY: Guys, here is Benedict Cumberbatch
in his youth in--
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, my god.
He's Henry, right?
He's her brother, Henry?
BONNIE BURTON: OK, so here's the thing.
He's a natural redhead.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, which is gross.
BONNIE BURTON: And most people don't realize he's a ginger.
HANNAH HART: Gingerbatch!
BONNIE BURTON: Gingerbatch.
FELICIA DAY: Is he really?
VERONICA BELMONT: God, Felicia's a redhead.
Don't say that.
KIALA KAZEBEE: No, I love redheads.
I just meant--
HANNAH HART: --scared of gingers.
KIALA KAZEBEE: No.
I love--
VERONICA BELMONT: What?
No.
What?
BONNIE BURTON: What?
VERONICA BELMONT: No!
No one said anything, Bonnie!
BONNIE BURTON: You keep saying something, and Kiala says, no,
no, that's not what I meant.
VERONICA BELMONT: No, because she didn't say anything.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I didn't say anything.
BONNIE BURTON: So, Benedict Cumberbatch is a natural,
curly redhead.
That's why it shocks all of us when we see him.
And he's goofy-looking in that picture.
So, you know--
FELICIA DAY: Would I look good with dark hair like that?
Because he looks so much better with dark hair.
BONNIE BURTON: You look so good in any--
I think you would look good as a brunette or dark hair.
I don't know if platinum blond would be--
FELICIA DAY: Oh, no, that would be bad for me.
KIALA KAZEBEE: But I love the red that you have now, too.
There's a lot of gold in it.
It's really pretty.
FELICIA DAY: Hannah, what do you think about the book?
Not my hair.
HANNAH HART: What?
About your hair?
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, what do you think about Felicia's
hair, Hannah?
HANNAH HART: I'm glad that it's all on her head.
I don't know.
[LAUGHTER]
It hasn't fallen out yet.
FELICIA DAY: It will.
It will.
HANNAH HART: Um, no, what did I think?
So when Felicia invited me to join this week's *** Fan, I
was like, yeah!
Yay!
You guys going to gay ***?
Oh, "stuff?"
And then she told me it was going to be "Tipping the
Velvet." And I met that with, oh, no!
That's like the worst movie I've ever seen.
I quoted--
I'm like, worst like BBC miniseries of all time, blah,
blah, blah.
And she's, like, well, read the book.
It's one of my favorite books.
Oh, no.
How could you say that?
So anyway, the book is way better than the miniseries.
The book is way more interesting.
It has so much more going on, frankly.
And it's better written than I thought it would be.
Though it's not like a-- you know, obviously I was a lit
major in college.
So it's not like a well-written work.
It doesn't make you feel anything.
But it was interesting and very consumable.
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: I don't know why we're laughing at that.
BONNIE BURTON: Consumable is a good word.
HANNAH HART: Right?
Don't you think it's very palatable.
It's like, oh, OK.
And it's kind of like, oh ho ho.
Like, if I was a grandma reading this book,
I'd be, like woo!
FELICIA DAY: So you're saying that for you,
it wasn't very racy.
But for the average person, it would be racy?
HANNAH HART: I know know.
I mean, I'm pretty prudent.
So, it was and wasn't racy.
I don't know.
I--
hold on a second.
BONNIE BURTON: Ooo!
[LAUGHTER]
Hannah, let's put it in perspective.
What do you think the most racy lesbian fiction that
you've read is, then?
HANNAH HART: Well, I read a Sailor Neptune, Sailor Uranus
fan fic when I was like 13, which was really intense.
I don't know.
I mean, you have to understand.
I grew up reading dirty fan fics.
So dirty novels have never even been anywhere near.
Like when I was a kid growing up on fan fic, that's your
number one exposure to pornographic fiction, right?
And so it's like, all these novels have always--
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, they didn't have fan fic
when I was a kid.
VERONICA BELMONT: I just missed the whole thing.
HANNAH HART: Yeah.
It was a really--
BONNIE BURTON: They decided--
I remember reading slash fic and fan fic on Usenet, and
Usenet was pre-web.
And that was still Internet.
So I remember doing that.
And then I had like *** fan fic pen pals.
And so we would do kind of like the so is it--
HANNAH HART: What was your genre?
BONNIE BURTON:--where you'd add chapters and send it back.
And then I'd add a couple and send it back.
FELICIA DAY: What did you write about?
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, mine was all, like, "X-Files," "Twin
Peaks" ***.
[LAUGHTER]
HANNAH HART: Oh, god, I read some of the best novel-length
Mulder and Scully fan fic.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, that is my favorite.
To this day, to this day, it's still my favorite.
VERONICA BELMONT: Would it be too late for
me to read fan fic?
FELICIA DAY: No, it's not too late.
VERONICA BELMONT: Where does one find this?
BONNIE BURTON: Online.
KIALA KAZEBEE: On the internets.
VERONICA BELMONT: On the internet?
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yes.
FELICIA DAY: Now how do you find good fan fic?
Like how do you discriminate?
It's not like it's on Goodreads, is it?
BONNIE BURTON: Well, there's self-published fan fic.
Because you run into the problems with copyright
characters and all that, but I think honestly, if you go on
Goodreads and start a thread saying what is the top quality
fan fic, I bet you'd get a lot of really good suggestions.
Because our Goodreads forum people are really smart, and
they understand good literature.
I don't think you're going to get, like, crap suggestions.
So I would say--
HANNAH HART: Oh, yeah.
Honestly, there's like Harry Potter fan fic that's--
KIALA KAZEBEE: I read that.
HANNAH HART: --better than the seventh book.
FELICIA DAY: I heard that Clarissa Clare-- you know the
"Mortal Instruments?" That started as Harry Potter--
HANNAH HART: Stephanie Meyer was fan fic.
BONNIE BURTON: That's with "Twilight," yeah.
And "50 Shades of Gray" was "Twilight" fan fic.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, totally.
FELICIA DAY: So Kiala, what did you think?
And by the way, the fan is blowing a
little bit of your mic.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, sorry.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, turn it down, Beyonce.
FELICIA DAY: What did you think about the book?
KIALA KAZEBEE: I really liked it.
I thought it was kind of like-- have you ever read "The
Crimson Petal and the White?"
FELICIA DAY: Yes!
I was going to say that!
KIALA KAZEBEE: I'm sorry!
I stole it from you!
But yeah, it was like that, lite.
Do you know that I mean?
HANNAH HART: Yeah.
KIALA KAZEBEE: It kind of, like, filled that void for me,
if you will.
So I liked it, because I wish there were like nine "Crimson
Peal and the White" books.
So, yeah, I liked it for that reason.
And also, I mean, I read a lot of Anais Nin
when I was early 20s.
HANNAH HART: Oh, yeah!
Anais Nin! "The Diary of Anais Nin" is great!
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, the diaries.
Her fiction sucks.
Her *** is stupid, but the diaries are amazing.
So I read those and Henry Miller in my early 20s.
And then I took the same Dickens, Victorian lit classes
because I transferred colleges so many times.
I took it like five times.
So this is kind of my favorite genre, but also my least
favorite genre.
But it's still like a very familiar world that I love.
HANNAH HART: That's what I mean when I say
it was really palatable.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, exactly.
It was just easy to get into.
And it was like candy.
Really, I liked it a lot.
I really enjoyed reading it.
FELICIA DAY: Veronica, what did you think?
And then we'll get into--
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm getting invites to fan
fic forums on Twitter.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, god!
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm losing my focus.
FELICIA DAY: I think for fan fic, you need
to pick what genre.
I mean, pick something that you're interested in.
VERONICA BELMONT: TNG fan fic.
FELICIA DAY: I would pick "Game of Thrones," maybe.
I would be interested in "Game of Thrones."
VERONICA BELMONT: I said TNG fan fic.
KIALA KAZEBEE: That's what she knows.
She knows what she wants.
HANNAH HART: If you need "Next Generation," if you need "Star
Trek" fan fic, what do you want?
Some Riker-Troi?
What are you looking for?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, I'd like a little Riker-Troi, a
little Anzati.
BONNIE BURTON: I'm so glad you said TNG because I thought--
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, what?
BONNIE BURTON: I thought you said "Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles" at first.
Like, I got my acronyms mixed up.
And I'm like, yeah, I want that fiction.
VERONICA BELMONT: Like "Mutant Ninja Turtles?"
BONNIE BURTON: There you go.
VERONICA BELMONT: Well, OK, so the book-- so at first, I
really liked it.
This was kind of my progression.
At first I was like, this is really well-written.
I'm really enjoying the story.
All the stuff in Whitstable?
That's where she's from?
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
Where she's from?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
And then after all the Kitty stuff happened, and she kind
of went through her depressive phase, and kind of lost her
mind for a while there, she kind of came back.
She came back as a very different person, Nancy.
And that person I didn't like as much, not because of what
she was going through and what she was forced to do, but she
just kind of turned into a ***.
Like, I don't know how to describe it.
HANNAH HART: Oh, no pun intended.
VERONICA BELMONT: Pun intended.
FELICIA DAY: Pun intended.
VERONICA BELMONT: Pun actually intended.
And then she kind of comes back around,
and she meets Flo.
And she kind of starts this new life, and she goes with
the mother and her daughter.
She goes with them for a while, and then she kind of
comes back into it.
But the unlikable factor for me was difficult to get past.
And it wasn't because of the
circumstances in her situation.
It was because she just kind of got, like, mean in a way.
I guess life makes you mean sometimes, and that's happened
to every one, but I lost a little bit
of my interest there.
The sex scenes for me too were--
I've read a lot of lady-on-lady erotica.
And this just did not do it for me.
I don't know why.
I think it was maybe a little too literary, if
that makes any sense.
And so I was, like, OK this is happening.
OK, this is happening.
OK.
All right, that happened.
OK.
Doh dum.
That was it.
HANNAH HART: Well, maybe it's because do
you think that Nan--
one of the things I felt was that she was just not someone
I was attracted to.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: Like I don't think I'd be friends with her.
HANNAH HART: Because that's like the
essence of erotica, right?
It's either you are the subject, or
you're the object, right?
You're either the aggressor or you're the aggressed upon.
And if you don't relate to Nan, and you don't like the
people that she's "engaging" with-- do you like my PG13
terms here, guys?
[LAUGHTER]
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, I love it.
HANNAH HART: And you yourself, you have no part to project
yourself onto.
VERONICA BELMONT: I think so, but I think we've read enough
varied characters over the course of this book club that
I feel if that was the issue--
HANNAH HART: Cthulhu?
I saw that one.
I watched the whole Cthulu Hangout.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah!
BONNIE BURTON: Yay!
VERONICA BELMONT: There were a lot of characters in that book
that I didn't relate to on any kind of level, but yet, it was
still a pretty interesting read for me.
And so I don't know, maybe it was just Nan as a person.
Maybe I didn't like her.
I'm not looking for her to be like a total Mary Sue, but at
the same time, I don't need that.
I just need someone who I can relate to on
some level, I guess.
FELICIA DAY: I really liked the book.
And I'm on my second read.
I remember--
I think I like "Fingersmith" better than this one.
"Fingersmith" is another book by this author about thieves
which has one of the best twists in all books besides
Ian Banks, one of his books.
"Use of Weapons," I think.
But this one, I agree with you Veronica.
I had a hard time relating to Nan, and therefore
the romance of it.
Because basically, you're from her point of view, and it's
sort of she's the outsider looking in to Kitty, and that
relationship, you know that is not real.
It's kind of toxic underneath.
And then she goes off and does all these horrible things by
basically becoming a ***,
pretending to be a guy.
As a *** sort of defacing herself and
everything she believes in because she's so
self-destructive about Kitty.
And then she goes off with this kind of
abusive older woman.
VERONICA BELMONT: Diane, yeah.
FELICIA DAY: Diane, yeah.
And she puts herself through these horrible things.
And then she ends up with somebody who can redeem her.
But by that time, it's hard to be under her skin because she
is so damaged underneath.
That's why I liked it from a literary point of view before
a romance point of view.
You're like I don't know about these sexy scenes because it
doesn't feel right.
Because the pairings didn't feel genuine until the very,
very, very end of the book.
And then, there's no romance.
HANNAH HART: I kind of liked the--
from just a pure, like, if you try and give it more indulgent
"erotica," I mean, I kind of liked the Diana ***-- or
stuff-- because it's like, yeah, you're the
little slave for sex.
That's hot, sure.
The stuff that bothered me about her
was the social dynamics.
It's like, oh, you're terrible!
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, she was horrible.
And she was so horrible to that maid.
That was like the last straw.
I mean, that was pretty sad.
VERONICA BELMONT: I thought Diana was
going to come around.
I thought she was going to be cold on the surface.
And then they were going to break under her, get past that
surface, that icy surface, and make her into a more, you
know, like I'm kind of a jerk on the surface, but underneath
I'm just warm and cuddly and want to be loved.
But no, it was not that.
HANNAH HART: Do you guys think that the author--
what's her name?
Sarah Waters, right?
FELICIA DAY: Sarah Waters, yeah.
HANNAH HART: Do you think that she in the first relationship
with Kitty was trying to parallel--
and forgive me if I'm getting too, like, oh, yeah.
Let's be mental.
Let's do bird's eye view.
But if it were to pertain to the LGBT community, when
you're in that first relationship with someone, and
then you get all messed up over them.
And it reshapes your life, and then you go out, and you
aren't the best version of yourself.
If the journey was a parallel of that experience where your
first heartbreak makes you subsequently mean to other
people, and it's only like the third time around that you
really are with somebody that respects you because you've
started to respect yourself again, question mark?
FELICIA DAY: I mean, no, I love that.
And also I read somewhere that this has a big
autobiographical component because she met somebody in a
boarding and had the relationship.
HANNAH HART: Who was a male ***?
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, I didn't know the details.
I should have read up on it.
I saw it on Wikipedia briefly.
But I'd be interested to see how that journey is parallel.
But do you think that that's uniquely LGBT?
Or is that something that--
KIALA KAZEBEE: [BLOWING NOSE]
[LAUGHTER]
HANNAH HART: Oh, my god.
BONNIE BURTON: Blow your nose, Kiala.
VERONICA BELMONT: Hey, guys, she's sick.
Be nice to her.
Baby!
FELICIA DAY: Oh, turn the--
VERONICA BELMONT: I don't know how you did not get me sick
when we were romping around in our hotel room.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I know!
HANNAH HART: Maybe you got her sick.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Especially when I cuddled up next to you, and
then I just drooled on you.
VERONICA BELMONT: Just all over my face and inside my
ear, in my eye orifices.
BONNIE BURTON: If this episode of "Vaginal Fantasy" was like
a Victorian romance novel, I'm sad to say, Kiala, I think
you'd be the first one to die from tuberculosis.
VERONICA BELMONT: I had the consumption.
I'm not dead.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, but you're a dad.
VERONICA BELMONT: I did have the consumption.
KIALA KAZEBEE: It's funny, you told that story.
And then we walked to the elevator, and that's when my
throat started to hurt.
VERONICA BELMONT: [GASP]
KIALA KAZEBEE: You gave it to me!
You threw your voice.
VERONICA BELMONT: I haven't had it in, like, six years.
KIALA KAZEBEE: It doesn't--
you've been just hosting it.
VERONICA BELMONT: I guess Constance is wasting away.
BONNIE BURTON: --her.
FELICIA DAY: By the way, can we read some
"Little Women" fan fic?
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah!
FELICIA DAY: I would love that because that is a candidate.
It's like, get it on, Jo. but it never happens.
BONNIE BURTON: You know what's so funny?
HANNAH HART: --fan fic.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
When I read "Little Women," I honestly thought Jo was a
lesbian, and I wanted her to be a lesbian, kind of like Jo
in "Facts of Life." Supposed to be lesbians on the show and
in the book.
Didn't happen in fiction.
HANNAH HART: That's the most frustrating thing.
BONNIE BURTON: What?
HANNAH HART: When you're gay, you just keep waiting for
other characters to be gay.
All these characters aren't--
you just want someone whose defining attribute is their
sexuality so much.
I mean, the way LGBT characters are portrayed in
movies, and film, and books, and da da da,
it's one of two things.
They're either depressive suicidal or
they're like super ***.
And all they do, they talk about their sex!
And it's like, oh, god!
BONNIE BURTON: For the longest time, I thought that Aaron
Spelling hated all gays because every time we'd get a
gay character in, like, "90210," or "Melrose Place,"
or any of his shows, he'd kill them off in the
most horrific ways.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I'm sure he did hate gays.
FELICIA DAY: Wait a minute.
That's the same thing as geeks.
You know, if you see a mainstream geek, they're like
exactly of the glasses, and it's
the cliche of a character.
HANNAH HART: Yeah, but geekdom doesn't define--
FELICIA DAY: That's true.
HANNAH HART: It's like saying "I'm a geek." It's like, well,
the formation of my personality is
based off of this.
Being like, "I'm a gay" is like I also am white.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah.
I could--
BONNIE BURTON: And also, right now, Russia is
not imprisoning geeks.
FELICIA DAY: Were there any books or TV that you think
does that well?
I mean, what did you feel that this book?
And then in general, what do you think, Hannah?
HANNAH HART: One of the best portrayals of the LGBT
experience I've ever seen is "Skins,"
seasons three and four.
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, I've wanted to watch that.
HANNAH HART: Oh, my god.
You guys, like, seriously?
Marathon it tonight.
BONNIE BURTON: You mean the UK?
UK or USA?
HANNAH HART: UK.
UK, "Skins," seasons three and four.
The relationship between Naomi and Emily is one of the most
sincere, authentic, grounded.
They each maintain their personalities as people.
It's wonderful, you know?
Like I said, it's kind of like when men try and write for
women characters, they're like, I'm pregnant!
Ahh!
I'm freaking out!
It's like, I'm a girl!
One of the most interesting moments, I was in a script
meeting once, and somebody said to a male writer, they're
like, I'm really having trouble writing this girl.
And another male writer says, honestly, just name her John.
And then switch the name at the end.
It'll help you write.
VERONICA BELMONT: Cool.
That's great.
HANNAH HART: Wow.
VERONICA BELMONT: There's this is great "BuzzFeed" article,
actually, that says 11 filmmakers who expertly
answered the question, why do you write strong female
characters?
And I just remember it because there's so many
great quotes in there.
Like Joss Whedon says, because you're still
asking me that question.
And the George RR Martin one was really good, too.
The interviewer asks him, there's one thing that's
interesting about your books.
I noticed that you write women really
well and really different.
Where does that come from?
And then George goes, you know, I've always considered
women to be people.
HANNAH HART: Oh, snap.
Women are people!
[INAUDIBLE]
BONNIE BURTON: Ding.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Have you guys been watching "Orange is the
New Black?"
VERONICA BELMONT: No spoilers!
FELICIA DAY: Don't go on.
I need to watch it.
BONNIE BURTON: You know what?
I was putting it off because I didn't know if I'd like it.
And I was being kind of *** about it, thinking oh, this is
going to be lame.
It's just going to be all these stereotypes.
I really like it a lot.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah?
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: What I love about the main character,
about Chapman, is that-- and this is not spoilery-- is that
she's very modern in the sense that she is pretty ambiguous
about her sexuality.
She just loves who she loves.
She's open to whatever happens to come her way that is
interesting to her.
It's a very modern take on sexuality that I think is
representative of a lot of, especially, women's views on
that kind of thing.
BONNIE BURTON: I always wonder about that, though.
Because I get kind of tired of--
I don't know.
Like OK, so I guess I'm outing myself a little bit.
So I consider myself bi.
And no one uses that term anymore.
And I don't know if there's this weird bi shame.
So now people instead of saying they're bi, they just
say, oh, sexuality, I don't like to label it.
So they just never use the term "bi." And I'm like, is
that something that was like a '90s reference that I'm still
using, that I'm not supposed to be using anymore?
Or is it like the gay community looks down upon it,
the straight community looks at me like I'm slutty?
HANNAH HART: It's a tough place to be, Bonnie.
Honestly, every time I'm on an LGBT panel, they always have a
"bisexual" representative.
And by the way, 100% of the time, it's a woman.
It's never a bisexual man, because I think that's less
acceptable, too, in the society and whatnot.
But anyway, so the bisexuals on the panel always express
the same thing, which is like, if I am physically attracted
to men and physically attracted to women in equal
respects, or sometimes even unequal respects, why does
that make me any less valid a member of the community?
I think that what people get up in arms about is having to
defend their love.
So, heterosexual people are obviously like, well, no.
Love is sacred.
See?
It's between men and women.
And obviously, homosexuals are, like, well, OK.
But it's OK that I love this person, too.
So people naturally are starting to resent.
Like, well, couldn't you just choose to be in whatever
acceptable blah blah blah we are?
VERONICA BELMONT: Not all heterosexuals say that love is
only between a man and a woman.
HANNAH HART: No, not heterosexuals.
I'm talking about, like, super conservative, obviously--
people jumping at the argument.
KIALA KAZEBEE: And that was what I wanted to say about the
show, that Chapman's relationship
with what's her face?
VERONICA BELMONT: Alex.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, Alex.
I think?
Yeah.
Is that it's not-- well, and whoever--
it's not just sex.
I mean, it's that she truly loves her.
And it is about love.
She's a real human being.
She's not some stereotypical girl in prison.
She's actually having these relationships with whoever
that she's in love with at the time, or has feelings for, or
just wants to do it with.
It's like it's undefinable.
And yeah, I really love that.
HANNAH HART: I don't envy bisexuality even a little bit.
It seems like a very tough spot to be in.
BONNIE BURTON: I rarely say anything about it just because
I really don't like labels.
I think labels are stupid, whether you're a geek, whether
you're gay, whether you're--
whatever.
I can't think of any other cool ones.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: A tree?
VERONICA BELMONT: Brunette.
BONNIE BURTON: I think you should be who you are.
I mean, if I said I was a feminist, it doesn't mean
anything because there's so many different, contradictory
waves of feminism.
HANNAH HART: Are you for the wave?
BONNIE BURTON: Wave one, two, three, four.
Like, I'm pro ***, but not human trafficking.
So it's like, I don't know where I fall into that.
So same thing-- so the labels freak people out because
everyone has a different opinion on
what that label means.
And it's not just about love.
It's about just sex, too.
Just cause I'm attracted to someone doesn't mean I'm in
love with them.
And it shouldn't be gender-specific.
So I don't know.
I try not to get hung up on it.
But you know, living in San Francisco, too, it's
constantly here.
And I'm glad that there's so much gay pride, but it seems
like anything that's not black or white, anything that's not
gay or heterosexual, anything that falls into that gray
space, people are afraid to talk about it, or they look
down on it.
I mean, most of my boyfriends in high school were bi, so I
don't know what that says about me, too?
I don't know.
And I've had a lot of girlfriends in college that
were only gay for those four years.
And then all of a sudden, they would no longer admit that
they were ever with a girl.
So, I don't know.
FELICIA DAY: Now, what did you feel like as far as the--
I mean, this is a historical novel.
And I love this period of the late 19th century.
But did anybody question--
and I haven't done the research, so I wish I knew
this-- whether this was true that they had lesbian clubs?
Because it seemed like they had characters
who where the toms.
They called them toms, I guess.
It seemed like they were fairly out there with their
*** preference in a time that you feel like this is the
Victorian Era.
That almost felt like a fantasy to me that it would be
so acceptable.
VERONICA BELMONT: I was super curious about that as well.
Because I just have no idea how acceptable or how out
people were back in those days.
So I'm very curious to know if anyone in the audience, in the
chat room, or on Twitter knows if that kind of thing was
actually happening or if it was much more in the closet
back then than we are led to believe by this book.
Or if it was underground but open in a way that people
privy to the underground scene would know about.
That's kind of how I feel.
I feel like perhaps it was more common than historically
we know about.
But if you were aware of it and looking at it through
someone like Nan's eyes, for example, that it would be a
lot more obvious.
BONNIE BURTON: If you look at the Wikipedia entry for
"Tipping the Velvet," and actually if you look under
themes, it does talk about the sexuality, and whether or not
that was accurate, and that sort of thing.
And they do say, as far as fiction, that there was some
little, short bursts of lesbian-themed ***-y
activity in, obviously, the '20s.
I think the 1920s were kind of that era of anything goes.
And a lot of things were more public as far as
female-on-female relationships, and drug use,
and fun stuff like that.
But I feel like it's always been around.
FELICIA DAY: Well, yeah.
But obviously, look at Turing.
It's not something that ever, during any period other than
probably the Roman and Greek times, it wasn't as if there
was a time when that was acceptable in an open way,
where it seemed like the characters in this book,
especially--
BONNIE BURTON: You know, I always feel like--
and I'm just going out on a limb here--
I feel like if you were part of the aristocracy, anything
was fine, as long as you kept it under wraps and it was done
under your roof.
Because [INTERPOSING VOICES]
sex, because just think of how much crap that went on in
those *** dens in the Victorian Era, and that was--
FELICIA DAY: Well, it all went on.
It's just whether people were open about it in that there
was basic social--
BONNIE BURTON: I feel like they probably were.
I don't think Victorians were quite as prude.
If they were rich they could kind of get away with it.
Because there was no middle class really, right?
I mean, there was, but--
I don't know.
Hannah?
HANNAH HART: Yeah like you said, members of the
aristocracy were probably privy to doing whatever
actions they wanted to.
So it's probably, like, oh.
Well, if this tickles your fancy, you might need to talk
to Dandelion.
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: We actually have a kind of related
question from Hannah on Twitter who says, could you
please discuss the language used and what you thought of
the term gay/***.
And this confused the hell out of me in this book!
I could not figure out.
Because sometimes they would use the term "gay" three times
in a sentence.
And I'm pretty sure they all meant to different things.
FELICIA DAY: I couldn't tell if she was doing--
I mean, the very title of the book is a euphemism for a
lesbian *** act, so she basically--
BONNIE BURTON: I would it wouldn't just--
HANNAH HART: Wait.
I'm confused.
Type in the chat which sex act you mean.
FELICIA DAY: What?
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, they mean--
FELICIA DAY: You know what it is.
BONNIE BURTON: Act it out.
HANNAH HART: A lesbian sex act--
I mean, do heterosexuals not do this?
VERONICA BELMONT: They do.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah.
HANNAH HART: Yeah, so it's not lesbian sex.
VERONICA BELMONT: They do, but it's a term for a sex act.
HANNAH HART: Lady having a great time sex act.
VERONICA BELMONT: Sexuality ambiguous.
FELICIA DAY: It was a terminology used specifically
for women doing this versus-- you know what I'm saying?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes.
HANNAH HART: I do.
I'm just [MUMBLES].
KIALA KAZEBEE: Sometimes not velvet.
VERONICA BELMONT: Sometimes then they said gay girls, I
thought they meant prostitutes.
Sometimes.
BONNIE BURTON: OK.
VERONICA BELMONT: No, I'm serious.
BONNIE BURTON: No, I'm with you.
VERONICA BELMONT: Sometimes, I think that meant prostitutes.
Sometimes, I think they meant happy.
Sometimes, I think they meant lesbian.
But sometimes, they would use them interchangeably in ways
that I did not understand.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Same with ***.
VERONICA BELMONT: And ***, does that mean weird?
HANNAH HART: --1990s.
So maybe sometimes, she was just doing it herself.
VERONICA BELMONT: Just to screw with us?
BONNIE BURTON: And then if you're a male ***
turning tricks, they call that renting.
I kept thinking, wow, my apartment
lease is so much ***.
HANNAH HART: I know.
I was like, oh, if that's renting, where's the sublet?
BONNIE BURTON: I'm renting.
KIALA KAZEBEE: But--
VERONICA BELMONT: They were talking about queens.
And I was wondering, is that the actual historical term,
where the words "queens" came from?
FELICIA DAY: We have some comments in chat saying that
Sarah Waters says that it isn't necessarily
historically accurate.
So in a way, this is actually a--
VERONICA BELMONT: God darn it.
FELICIA DAY: It is a fantasy in that it would've been nice
if people could live more openly with who
they are at that time.
So hey, people in the forums, it is a little bit of fantasy.
BONNIE BURTON: I don't know.
I still believe that--
I think this happened a lot.
It's just whoever writes history are the people that
are alive to write it.
And they can write however they want as far as they
remember it.
So who knows?
Maybe [INTERPOSING VOICES]
a lot.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah.
But I mean, there are scholars.
They're not just right wing Republicans
writing history books.
BONNIE BURTON: Sorry.
I was thinking of all the books that we read in
elementary school written by [INTERPOSING VOICES].
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, not those.
FELICIA DAY: A couple people have some interesting
questions from the forum.
Maddie asks, did you all think it was justifiable how Nancy
cast away her entire family instead of just her sister
after they were--
VERONICA BELMONT: No!
What the hell was with that?
What the hell was with her?
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: She was like, I don't have a family.
I'm like, actually, you have a family that loves you.
BONNIE BURTON: I'd do it.
Seriously.
And you know what?
If you're gay and your family doesn't get it, you're OK to
ditch them.
HANNAH HART: I don't think that's true.
I don't think that's fair to say.
FELICIA DAY: Really?
BONNIE BURTON: I don't know.
Is that bitter?
It sounds bitter.
HANNAH HART: It does sound bitter.
But it's like, I feel like--
I don't know, I wouldn't have done what Nancy did.
But then again, it's like the same thing as we were talking
about earlier.
She's not like the super most relatable
character, kind of a ***.
BONNIE BURTON: But also, isn't she trying to better herself?
And in that time, it wasn't unheard of for someone to
leave their family to go on adventures and not really--
VERONICA BELMONT: Before she left, she talked to her mom
more than I do, and my mom's like my best friend.
The send each other letters every week.
And then suddenly, she just cut it off?
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
Especially since she was going to live a life that is
basically of self-hatred, going to do all the
prostitution basically.
Which was really sad.
I mean, there were some scenes in there where she's
pretending to be a guy.
And then there's a guy who thinks she's a guy.
And all the stuff in the alley and stuff, it was just so sad
to see all these people hiding who they are and being so
unhappy because of what society--
BONNIE BURTON: I guess I don't equate--
my parents aren't tyrants or anything.
But I don't equate happiness with being best friends with
my parents.
So I don't know.
Like her ditching--
HANNAH HART: I frankly think that the only thing that I
would want to encourage is that let's
say your family does--
you know, preemptively if she left, because she was like,
oh, they're going reject this, blah blah blah.
Or if your family is going to be prone to rejecting your
sexuality for what it naturally is, I think the best
case scenario for you as a person is to remain exactly
who you are and to maintain that same respectful, loving
relationship from your side to show them that, the only
person that's choosing to act differently is actually you.
BONNIE BURTON: I don't know.
That's good advice.
I don't know.
I mean, I had friends in high school who when they came out,
they got if not beaten, they got kicked out.
And their families still haven't talked to them.
I definitely will tell you, Hannah, it's awesome if you
can be the better person.
But it's hard.
It's hard to take that high road initially.
I think as you get older, you realize that people set in
their ways, and sometimes they just have to love them for who
they are, and not try to change them as well.
But I think initially, it's a hard road to take that upper
hand and be like, yeah, you know what?
I'm just going to forgive you and move on.
And if you can do it, kudos, because it
took me a long time.
And it wasn't family, necessarily.
It was friends that just wouldn't believe it.
So I don't know.
It's hard.
But in this book, I definitely think in that time period, it
wasn't unheard of for daughters and sons to leave
the family and not make contact anymore.
FELICIA DAY: Daughters, really?
I feel like daughters definitely had a lot, women
had a lot less freedom.
BONNIE BURTON: I think it depends what part of the
financial ladder you were.
If you were aristocracy, yeah.
I mean, you had to keep in contact
because of social standing.
FELICIA DAY: A single woman living alone in that era, I
don't think--
KIALA KAZEBEE: You couldn't.
You had to have a companion.
FELICIA DAY: You had to have a companion all the time, even
if you were--
HANNAH HART: A companion?
That's someone who's old.
BONNIE BURTON: I guess I'm thinking if
you get kicked out.
I guess I'm thinking more if you get kicked out of the
family, or if they can't afford--
FELICIA DAY: But that was the thing.
She didn't get kicked out.
She preemptively left.
BONNIE BURTON: That's true.
That's true.
VERONICA BELMONT: She felt bad about doing the ***
Christmas present thing.
FELICIA DAY: That's true.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, you're right.
VERONICA BELMONT: --where she bought them all too expensive
gifts, felt crappy, left, and was upset that Annie was
pissed at her.
I mean, the Annie thing was definitely difficult.
That would have been hard to work through.
But the rest of her family just wanted to hang out with
her, and see her, and hear about her
awesome new life in London.
BONNIE BURTON: You're right.
You're right.
FELICIA DAY: What did you think about the--
and when we did the "Outlander" novel, people were
very offended that Jamie spanks Claire.
By the way, that's becoming a TV show.
Hello!
VERONICA BELMONT: I know, I can't wait!
I'm getting Starz just so I can watch that show basically.
FELICIA DAY: I'm so excited.
VERONICA BELMONT: Because I did not have any reason to
watch Starz in the past.
BONNIE BURTON: It's funny, I made friends with the script
adviser on that show, so hopefully I'll get some good
dirt on it.
But, yeah, I'm excited for that show.
That should just be
called "Spanks." [LAUGHTER]
Sorry.
VERONICA BELMONT: Sorry, Felicia.
Go ahead.
BONNIE BURTON: I made a bad joke.
Anyway, go ahead.
Yes?
You were saying?
FELICIA DAY: I was just saying that there was a lot of
underlying abuse between Diana and Nan which was in a much
different context.
But did everybody have as--
because we automatically were like, oh my god.
That guy's the worst.
And it was terrible what he did.
But did you have this visceral reaction about this very
masochistic situation between Nan and Diana?
BONNIE BURTON: You liked it, Hannah.
Didn't you?
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: There's nothing wrong with
a little role play.
HANNAH HART: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I just felt like, you know, we're reading like a sexy
little novel.
Just I kind of feel like, you know, I don't know.
Maybe it's a nice thing to sometimes think about.
It's fine.
[LAUGHTER]
BONNIE BURTON: I'm with you.
I'm with you on this.
VERONICA BELMONT: I was like, the role play, it wasn't
really role play because I feel like Diana was always
kind of in the position of power, so there wasn't really
much role play to it.
It was kind of just their life.
But the kind of parading her around like a little toy was a
little weird.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, I didn't like that part.
That was sad for me.
VERONICA BELMONT: And then she just kind of sat around and
didn't do anything all day except wander the hallways and
try on makeup.
And that was kind of depressing.
FELICIA DAY: A little soul-sucking, huh?
VERONICA BELMONT: I mean, we've all been there.
HANNAH HART: Very dark obviously, but--
VERONICA BELMONT: We've all been there.
HANNAH HART: What?
Daddy's the wrong--
KIALA KAZEBEE: What?
BONNIE BURTON: Play.
KIALA KAZEBEE: In a way, it kind of reminded me of in
"Kushiel's Dart" when she's the mistress of--
FELICIA DAY: Yes!
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah.
What's her name?
I can't remember.
VERONICA BELMONT: Totally!
Melisande.
FELICIA DAY: The diamond, wearing the diamond.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yes!
And she makes her clean her house and stuff.
VERONICA BELMONT: Holy crap!
Kiala, you're totally right.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah, you're right.
That's perfect.
I'm with you, Kiala.
FELICIA DAY: So Hannah's going to leave in a minute, after we
finish this book, in a couple minutes, and we'll talk very
briefly about the Alt and look at our cat dragon submissions.
But before Hannah leaves--
BONNIE BURTON: No, no, no.
You can't leave.
I'm not drunk enough to improperly flirt with you.
FELICIA DAY: Oh, my god.
HANNAH HART: There's no way to flirt with me.
I'm a brick wall.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: Let's do some casting.
Did anybody watch the TV show, by the way?
We should talk about that for a couple minutes, and then do
the casting, and then we're done.
I watched a little on the YouTubes, and it was not the
best, I think.
BONNIE BURTON: It's not accurate.
HANNAH HART: I'm no plaid oyster.
I'm Nan.
BONNIE BURTON: It's bad cockney.
It's bad, it's just bad.
And you know what?
The actors that are in this, they're always in BBC mystery
stuff like "Marple" and "Inspector Lewis." And they're
really good actors, but bad, bad cockney
accents and bad dialogue.
It was just horrible.
FELICIA DAY: Did you see the French-Saunders?
Someone posted on the forum.
BONNIE BURTON: Yes!
FELICIA DAY: And it was a parody of French and Saunders
who did "Ab Fab." They did a parody of the--
HANNAH HART: Oh, man, I love "Ab Fab."
BONNIE BURTON: OK, I got to look that up.
FELICIA DAY: You have to look it up on YouTube.
BONNIE BURTON: I'll tweet it out.
I'll tweet it later.
HANNAH HART: Yeah, tweet it out, Bonnie.
BONNIE BURTON: I will.
FELICIA DAY: OK.
So let's do some casting.
Now, besides the casting, let's just go from the book
perspective.
What casting would you guys--
I would throw out, and this is just me.
We had a couple of suggestions from the forums.
VERONICA BELMONT: I just found some Sherlock fan fic!
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, god!
FELICIA DAY: Don't do it!
HANNAH HART: Johnlock!
[? Lock! ?]
Johnlock!
BONNIE BURTON: Send it to me, Veronica.
Send it to me.
FELICIA DAY: OK.
Jen suggested Nancy as Hilary Swank, Kitty as Emily blunt,
Flo as Amber Benson, and Diana as Jaimie Murray, which I
thought was--
BONNIE BURTON: Pamela.
VERONICA BELMONT: I don't know who that is.
BONNIE BURTON: I could see Amber Benson as Florence.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
I could, too.
BONNIE BURTON: By the way, I did want to bring that up,
that that for me was the best representation of a lesbian
relationship was Willow and Tara on "Buffy." So I'm just
going to put that out there.
That made me happy, even though they fought
and one of them died.
But, anyway.
FELICIA DAY: OK.
My two leads would be Ethel from "Downtown Abbey," and
then the girl who played Summer on "The OC."
BONNIE BURTON: For which ones?
For which roles?
FELICIA DAY: OK.
Ethel, the woman who had the baby out of wedlock.
Sorry.
Spoilers.
BONNIE BURTON: No, I know that.
But for which roles in the book?
FELICIA DAY: OK.
For Nan, the "Downtown Abbey" actress.
And then Summer from "The OC," what was her name?
She has dark hair and big eyes?
BONNIE BURTON: I know who you're talking about.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Rachel Bilson.
VERONICA BELMONT: Rachel Bilson.
FELICIA DAY: Those would be my choices.
What about you?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, Nan is the blond.
No, brunette.
I mean, Nan has blondish hair, right?
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, blondish hair.
VERONICA BELMONT: And Kitty had--
FELICIA DAY: Darker hair and dark eyes.
That's what I--
VERONICA BELMONT: For some reason, I thought that Kitty--
in my brain, I pictured Kitty as a blond.
FELICIA DAY: Oh, maybe I'm messing up.
VERONICA BELMONT: No, you're not.
I don't think you are.
I think that I have it backwards.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I had the same thing.
I got them mixed up.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
Weird.
I wonder why that is.
FELICIA DAY: Anyway, anybody else have any casting
suggestions?
BONNIE BURTON: Mine are always so predictable,
so I'm going last.
KIALA KAZEBEE: It's funny that they said Emily Blunt, because
I just pictured Emily Blunt as everybody.
VERONICA BELMONT: You know why I think I'm
picturing her that way?
Because there is that girl on "Boardwalk Empire" that works
in the club that wears the little hat and has the short,
blond hair?
I think that's who I was picturing her as.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, yeah.
OK.
VERONICA BELMONT: Did you guys watch "Boardwalk Empire?"
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: Is Nan blond?
VERONICA BELMONT: No, but [INAUDIBLE]
is.
Nan has like dirty, mousy brown hair.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, she definitely does mousy.
BONNIE BURTON: Who?
FELICIA DAY: Kelly MacDonald on "Boardwalk Empire?"
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm not sure who that is.
KIALA KAZEBEE: No.
Kelly MacDonald is the one that's married to [INAUDIBLE].
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, OK.
I love her.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I do, too.
FELICIA DAY: Well, Hannah, did you have any casting at all?
You don't have to.
HANNAH HART: I mean, Kristen Stewart as all the roles.
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: They can all do it.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Do Kristen Stewart and Emily Blunt.
I'm happy with that.
FELICIA DAY: Is Kristen Stewart your Cumberbatch?
HANNAH HART: Ehhh.
Ehhh.
That's my Kristen Stewart impression.
BONNIE BURTON: That's good.
FELICIA DAY: Who was that?
BONNIE BURTON: Is that her Joan Jett?
I'm confused.
Is that her playing Joan Jett?
I don't remember.
HANNAH HART: That's her playing everything.
[LAUGHTER]
HANNAH HART: Ahh.
Ehh.
BONNIE BURTON: So I had Nan down as either Nina Dobrev
from "Vampire Diaries" or Christina Ricci.
Maybe?
I don't know.
FELICIA DAY: I like her--
BONNIE BURTON: OK.
And then Kitty, Eva Green.
KIALA KAZEBEE: She's way too old.
BONNIE BURTON: No, I pick Eva Green for everything.
Eva Green is my girl Benedict Cumberbatch.
Let's be honest.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: See, if there's a female Benedict Cumberbatch,
it is Eva Green for me.
I'm just saying.
VERONICA BELMONT: Green.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
BONNIE BURTON: OK, so have you watched "Camelot?" Did you
watch the series "Camelot?"
HANNAH HART: Oh, yeah, yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: Remember?
If you saw Camelot, you know what scene I'm talking about--
naked witch lady in the pond.
FELICIA DAY: She likes to get naked, Eva Green.
She was in "The Dreamers."
BONNIE BURTON: She was also Vesper in James Bond.
HANNAH HART: Yep.
I'm into it.
BONNIE BURTON: Anyway, I could keep going.
And then as far as, like, guy characters, because we didn't
talk about the guys at all.
You know, there's Walter, that manager, that gets together
with Kitty.
Which I didn't understand that at all.
And then of course, there's Ralph, who was Florence's
brother, who had problems giving a speech.
And then she butts in and gives a speech.
Do you remember that?
So did you guys think that the guy characters were good
characters?
Or do you think they were just thrown in there?
FELICIA DAY: What is this, Veronica?
VERONICA BELMONT: This is who I pictured her as.
FELICIA DAY: Oh, that girl is fantastic for Kitty.
BONNIE BURTON: Who is that?
VERONICA BELMONT: She's blond.
That's Babette from "Boardwalk Empire." That's her name.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh!
OK.
HANNAH HART: Wow!
That's like it's just from the movie.
FELICIA DAY: Hannah, you should be that character.
BONNIE BURTON: What did you guys think of the guy
characters, though?
FELICIA DAY: I think the guy characters were good.
I mean, I think that obviously, the focal point
were all the women characters.
They were the most mentioned and all.
But the guy characters were very supportive and very much
like women in other books about men.
BONNIE BURTON: I know.
I was thinking that, too.
I was thinking that it was such a reverse because women
in most major books are like the side characters and put in
for plot points.
FELICIA DAY: Exactly.
It's just, like, move the plot forward.
Thank you.
BONNIE BURTON: And it was kind of nice to have a book with
all women, and then dudes were the plot points.
I like that.
FELICIA DAY: Well, Hannah has to go.
But we have to discuss our alt books and go over cat dragons
and everything.
VERONICA BELMONT: Cat dragons!
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
HANNAH HART: Bye, guys.
Count me in [INTERPOSING VOICES].
VERONICA BELMONT: Thanks, Hannah.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Thank you, Hannah.
HANNAH HART: Thanks for filling one of my personal
vaginal fantasies by being on "Vaginal Fantasy."
VERONICA BELMONT: Also, chat room strongly suggests that
you come back on as a regular some time.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: And we agree.
HANNAH HART: Aww.
You guys are sweet.
I will read all sorts of ***.
So don't even worry about it.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: Bye-bye.
VERONICA BELMONT: Bye, Hannah!
FELICIA DAY: Yay.
BONNIE BURTON: Yay!
FELICIA DAY: That was awesome.
Worked, guys.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: Woot!
Yay!
FELICIA DAY: So let's talk quickly about "Swordspoint,"
and then we'll do cat dragons and announce the
next month's book.
Who actually read "Swordspoint," though?
BONNIE BURTON: I did!
VERONICA BELMONT: I started reading it
thinking it was the main.
FELICIA DAY: I know.
VERONICA BELMONT: And it wasn't until I--
did I see you in person?
FELICIA DAY: You did see me in person at Comic Con.
You were like, oh, what?
The main pick is "Tipping the Velvet?"
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
So I saw you, and then I started
immediately reading it.
BONNIE BURTON: You've done this before,
Veronica, haven't you?
VERONICA BELMONT: What?
BONNIE BURTON: Haven't you read the alt
book by accident before?
VERONICA BELMONT: No.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, this is the first time?
VERONICA BELMONT: This is the first time I've actually--
no, you're right!
BONNIE BURTON: I feel like you did.
VERONICA BELMONT: I started reading "Ghost Planet."
KIALA KAZEBEE: Sorry.
I'm going to blow my nose over here.
VERONICA BELMONT: You're right.
I started reading the alt pick for "Ghost Planet."
FELICIA DAY: Oh, you did.
It was better, though.
That was the better--
VERONICA BELMONT: And I picked it.
But anyway, "Swordspoint?" So I'm enjoying it.
FELICIA DAY: I know.
Let me give you the description first.
BONNIE BURTON: I'll put the book up.
FELICIA DAY: It is by Ellen Kushner.
Let me click on the thing.
And it's--
where's my description?
I have my whole Clip Notes and everything.
Oh. "On the treacherous streets of Riverside, a man
lives and dies by the sword.
Even the nobles on the Hill turn to duels to
settle their disputes.
Within this elite, dangerous world, Richard St. Vier is the
undisputed master, as skilled as he is ruthless until a
death by the sword is met with outrage instead of awe and the
city discovers that the line between hero and villain can
be altered in the blink of an eye."
And as you can see from the cover, this has a male-male
romance in a very historical, somewhat like
17th century setting.
So we went with the historical theme with both of our books.
I have read this book.
I really, really enjoyed it.
And I've also read the sequel, and I'm a huge fan of this
author, so that's why I liked it.
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm sorry I didn't like it, then.
FELICIA DAY: No, you don't have to.
No, no.
I mean, listen, you don't have to like everything at all.
How far did you get on it?
I think it did bog down a little bit on the--
VERONICA BELMONT: Only about a third of the way
through, and I just--
it was a lot of talking.
FELICIA DAY: [LAUGHING]
It's a very florid sort of writing style, very dense, so
you can't skim it.
You have to read it slowly, similar to "Tipping the
Velvet," which is as overly sort of prose written.
VERONICA BELMONT: I did like the relationship
between Alex and--
BONNIE BURTON: Richard?
VERONICA BELMONT: Richard.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: I thought that was sweet.
But, yeah, it's just I was not--
I think it was starting to get better when I realized that I
was reading the wrong book.
So I had to stop.
BONNIE BURTON: [LAUGHING]
VERONICA BELMONT: So maybe I should go back to it now.
BONNIE BURTON: Did you say it got better when you stopped
reading it?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes.
I think it was getting better.
And then I was, like, oh, crap!
I'm reading the wrong book.
I need to speed read the actual pick.
And so I started with that one.
But I have not.
BONNIE BURTON: What do you think would make the book
better for you?
What would have made the story better for you, do you think?
VERONICA BELMONT: More *** happening up front.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
FELICIA DAY: [LAUGHING]
VERONICA BELMONT: That's kind of is where--
I'm sorry.
BONNIE BURTON: Leave straightaway.
VERONICA BELMONT: I don't have a PG way to put that.
I'm sorry.
It was just like the stuff was just not happening.
FELICIA DAY: Whenever we were with Richard and Alec, I felt
like there was such an interesting connection between
them because Alec is obviously very self-destructive.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes.
FELICIA DAY: He has a mysterious past.
VERONICA BELMONT: We've all had relationships like that.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, exactly.
So I never wanted to leave them.
And when we went to the more intrigue, the sort of
[INTERPOSING VOICES] intrigue and the aristocracy, working
behind the scenes to manipulate them and all that
stuff, it was less compelling than the sort of relationship
and learning about these two main characters.
Who through the piece, I think, it's a really cool arc.
And you learn a lot about Alec.
I actually found out there's a sequel.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh!
FELICIA DAY: Which I have not read, but I have to read, that
talks about the end of their life and their relationship.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, I want to read that.
FELICIA DAY: I'd like to do that, yeah.
But to me, I agree with you that the more intrigue parts
were much slower in the way they were written.
BONNIE BURTON: That's how I am with romance books, too.
I could care less about political stuff and all the,
like, who has more power than the other person.
I don't care about any of that stuff.
I always care about the actual, intimate
relationships.
And I really liked Richard and Alec mostly because it's such
a weird pairing to have like this ruthless assassin fall in
love with a suicidal brat.
I mean, that's basically what it was.
And it was an interesting love connection and love mix.
Like, I wasn't expecting that.
And so every time it was about them, I would turn my
focus on for sure.
But then like you guys, when it went to the other
characters, I don't know.
I didn't care.
And they had another character named Diane, which I thought
was interesting.
VERONICA BELMONT: That was interesting.
It was.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
I was, like, what's with that?
I mean, I get the whole Greek, Roman Diane thing.
But I don't know.
I didn't care about Ferris and all the lords.
I just didn't care about that.
Like, I could care less about Machiavellian power plays.
I'm all about--
FELICIA DAY: Oh, that's my favorite.
That's why--
BONNIE BURTON: Really?
So you like that whole who's in charge of
what kingdom crap?
FELICIA DAY: I mean, that's why I like "Kushiel's Dart,"
too, because there's a lot of world building and plotting,
but at the same time.
Although I think that you see Phedre a lot
more as the main character.
I wish we could have spent even more time with Richard
and Alec, and spent a little less of a ratio with Michael
and all his stuff.
BONNIE BURTON: It almost felt a little Shakespearean with
those side characters.
FELICIA DAY: It felt very Shakespearean.
You're right.
And we had a lot of mixed feelings.
I mean, "Tipping the Velvet," universally, people
really liked it.
And they generally didn't like Nan's character, but they
would recommend the book on, I would say, a bigger ratio.
This one, we had people like Pointy Ears and Auschen.
They loved the book.
And it was just the sumptuous sort of story
telling they loved.
And then people were like--
it was either Veronica or Felicia.
There was no middle ground, it felt like.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
It's interesting because I saw that, too.
Because it's great.
Since we've had this show, when people
are reading the books--
I don't know if you guys get this, too-- but people tweet
at me as they're reading if they like it or don't like it,
or if they're finding it difficult to read because they
find the characters annoying.
And I love that.
I love when people tweeted us because I'm reading the books
about the same time.
Though I do reverse order, so I always read the alt before
the major one.
But it's fun to see that.
Because it's good to see people's reactions.
And I go on Goodreads and see, too.
But just to see people's reactions, going, oh, this is
taking too long.
Why isn't there a sex scene?
Or, oh, I don't like the political stuff.
I just want romance.
Or, hey, this world building's bogus.
Like, it's good to get that reaction as I'm reading
because it forces me to read faster to catch up with people
to see if this was really.
But yeah, I agree.
It was kind of a polarity with this book.
You either loved it or you hated it.
There's wasn't a lot of middle ground.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
It's definitely stylistically different from what we're used
to reading.
Which next month, we're going to read, like, the trashiest,
fastest books ever.
BONNIE BURTON: I love it!
I love it!
And also, I had a hard time casting this.
Did you cast anything?
FELICIA DAY: I got Topher Grace.
BONNIE BURTON: Really?
For which character?
FELICIA DAY: And then I liked Colin Farrell as Richard
because he's supposed to be dark-haired.
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, yeah.
FELICIA DAY: I don't know.
BONNIE BURTON: Which one?
You had Alec as Topher?
FELICIA DAY: Alec as Topher because he's supposed to have
leafy, brown hair, I think, or something like that?
Kind of like--
KIALA KAZEBEE: [COUGHING]
FELICIA DAY: --from the other book.
And then Diane Kruger as Diane,
because she's very pretty.
And then Val Kilmer as the bad guy.
VERONICA BELMONT: I just got that Johnlock is the term for
"Sherlock" fan fic.
FELICIA DAY: What just happened?
VERONICA BELMONT: I just got that Johnlock is the term for
John Watson and Sherlock fan fic.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
KIALA KAZEBEE: What?
Oh!
BONNIE BURTON: Just so you know, setlock means people
tweeting about "Sherlock" 3 because no
one wants to be spoiled.
So if you see behind the scenes photos, and you tumble
it or tweet it, you're supposed to put setlock
hashtag so people don't get spoiled.
Though I will mention that the teaser trailer for "Sherlock"
season three, did come out this weekend, so please look
at that if you want to see spoilery but not really
spoilery images.
And you get to see John Watson's freaking big old
moustache, this '70s, Tom of Finland moustache.
I don't know how that's going to fit in.
But--
FELICIA DAY: Oh, my gosh.
BONNIE BURTON: He has his own Twitter account.
That moustache has his own Twitter account now.
VERONICA BELMONT: Of course, it does.
That's amazing.
FELICIA DAY: OK.
Well, I think that's good.
Thank you for reading along this month.
I think we would universally say we would recommend
"Tipping the Velvet," all of us.
Would we recommend that?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: I wanted to bring this up
because I saw this.
I was looking at Twitter while we were having this episode.
And a lot of people were super excited that, A, we were
reading lesbian fiction, and homosexual, like gay guy
fiction, too, but that we had Hannah on as a guest.
And they were suggesting that we try to do this more.
So I mean, if we ever want to do another gay fiction month
or something, have Hannah back, I think that would be
kind of fun.
FELICIA DAY: I think Hannah could come in.
And if we're read--
I mean, if she wants to come back at any time, that's fine.
BONNIE BURTON: She can come back any time.
FELICIA DAY: If you guys enjoyed us having a
guest, let us know.
Maybe we can--
BONNIE BURTON: I think it was such a positive
outpouring on Twitter--
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, I know.
I think it's awesome.
BONNIE BURTON: Like it's the feeling that we were actually
making an effort to do gay erotica--
FELICIA DAY: Also, on the--
and, well, it's not really erotica.
It's romance.
BONNIE BURTON: Well, romance.
Sorry.
FELICIA DAY: We also have a thread on the forums under
Book Discussion and Recommendations
of gay fantasy romance.
And a lot of people are suggesting things on there.
Shera found a book called "The Shark Who Rode a Seahorse."
It's a shark shifter at odds with his
attraction toward a seahorse.
VERONICA BELMONT: Shark Week!
BONNIE BURTON: Shark Week!
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yay!
FELICIA DAY: I haven't read this book.
I cannot recommend if it's corny or not, but it might be
interesting to check out.
BONNIE BURTON: Hey, if anything merges "Sharknado"
with romance, I am there.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
Veronica, before we announce next month's books, why don't
you show everybody your cat dragon?
VERONICA BELMONT: [INAUDIBLE].
FELICIA DAY: Last month, we read "Fire Lord's Lover," and
we had a whole discussion.
Veronica, set it up.
And you go.
You take it away.
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm setting it up.
I'm trying to.
Hold on a second.
Give me a second.
BONNIE BURTON: Take it away!
VERONICA BELMONT: Keep talking.
FELICIA DAY: So basically, in "Fire Lords--" or no, it
wasn't "Fire Lord's Lover." It was the CL Wilson.
Our alt book last month had a creature called a tairen that
was the focal point and what the main lead
character could turn into.
And it was described in the book as sort of a feline
dragon, sort of venomous mixed--
it's just a really weird idea, an animal that we would not be
familiar with.
And we all coined it
"cat dragon." [LAUGHTER]
And there was not a contest, but a call to arms.
Because people were saying Veronica needs to be the cat
dragon with Kiala riding her?
Is that what the deal was?
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, that was basically it.
Can you see this?
FELICIA DAY: No.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Not yet.
VERONICA BELMONT: No?
You can't see my cat dragon?
KIALA KAZEBEE: No.
FELICIA DAY: Go ahead and screen share.
VERONICA BELMONT: I was.
I was screen sharing.
I thought I was.
All right.
It must have decided it didn't like--
OK, we'll do this.
Can you see it now?
KIALA KAZEBEE: There we go, yeah.
Yeah, that happened.
VERONICA BELMONT: Hold on.
Shoot.
Technology is trying to--
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, we're getting it.
VERONICA BELMONT: So do you see--
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, boy!
VERONICA BELMONT: That's by Shaun.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Who was the first one?
VERONICA BELMONT: The first one?
This one?
That is Kevin Porter.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, I love that one.
VERONICA BELMONT: I love that one.
That was one of the first.
This one, a little sketchy.
FELICIA DAY: I love how just you're so grumpy.
VERONICA BELMONT: Basically in that one, that's just a cat
with bangs.
It's on Benadryl, just a cat with bangs.
BONNIE BURTON: Grumpy cat.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I'm just like, whee!
You're just like, grrr!
VERONICA BELMONT: This one I love.
BONNIE BURTON: That's one of my favorites.
VERONICA BELMONT: And it says, so majestic.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I think that I look like 90 years old.
BONNIE BURTON: I'd read that comic.
VERONICA BELMONT: But I have a mouse in my mouth.
FELICIA DAY: Very Adventure Timey.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: Totally.
This one, a little more photo-realistic.
FELICIA DAY: You can do the movie.
VERONICA BELMONT: It's like a movie with Bonnie Burton as
the voice of Cthulhu and Benedict Cumberbatch in every
role male role.
Written and directed by Felicia Day.
FELICIA DAY: I love that!
BONNIE BURTON: I'm already uploading it to my IMDB.
VERONICA BELMONT: This one, which is also
just a cat with bangs.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, I love it.
FELICIA DAY: It looks just like you, Veronica.
Be quiet.
BONNIE BURTON: It does.
That's the most realistic.
VERONICA BELMONT: This one, which is just me
wearing a cat hoodie.
KIALA KAZEBEE: What?
VERONICA BELMONT: Hang on, wait.
FELICIA DAY: Aww!
BONNIE BURTON: Oh, look.
Anime!
KIALA KAZEBEE: I want to see.
I can't see it.
VERONICA BELMONT: You can't get it?
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, look at that!
What?
Why do I have short hair?
What's going on?
VERONICA BELMONT: Oh, that's a good point.
You have very short hair.
BONNIE BURTON: I love it.
It's like manga.
VERONICA BELMONT: And then this one, which I think is
probably my favorite.
KIALA KAZEBEE: That's my favorite.
[LAUGHTER]
VERONICA BELMONT: Get a bottle of Jack Daniel's.
FELICIA DAY: Wow!
VERONICA BELMONT: Because you got the bottle of Jack
Daniel's and--
KIALA KAZEBEE: I'm just like, yay!
BONNIE BURTON: I want that on a t-shirt.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, me too.
VERONICA BELMONT: Personally, this one I think looks the
most like me and Kiala, which I think is hilarious.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, I do, too.
I love it.
I love his little paws.
VERONICA BELMONT: I think these two are my favorite--
this one, and this one, and this one.
So which is going to be our winner?
BONNIE BURTON: I think that one is the winner.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Yeah, this one's a winner.
FELICIA DAY: Could be the winner.
KIALA KAZEBEE: That's my personal favorite.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
VERONICA BELMONT: All right.
Then ghostwaffleart.tumblr.com.
BONNIE BURTON: So Kiala's going to send all the--
or not Kiala.
I'm sorry.
Veronica is going to send all these to me.
And I'll put them in vaginalfantasy.com.
So I'll put it in our Tumblr blog so everyone can see them.
And then there were some honorable mentions.
Someone was very nice because I was feeling
kind of left out.
So someone had me riding Cthulhu
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, I saw that.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, that was a good one, too.
BONNIE BURTON: Thank you for making me feel included.
And there were some mashups where we were all riding the
cat dragon.
VERONICA BELMONT: I didn't see that one.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Felicia would be in the background.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
So I think our fans are very artistic.
And kudos to all of you, so applause.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, thank you very much, guys.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yay!
You guys are the best.
BONNIE BURTON: Thank you for entertaining us, and making us
look awesome.
FELICIA DAY: So for next month, since you guys--
these were definitely books--
I try to mix up the commitment level of our books.
Like I knew this month these would be longer reads.
They're a little bit more elaborately written.
They're longer, a little more involved.
So I try to mix it up.
And next month, it's very fast.
It'll be very fast.
You guys can read sequels, even.
These are both number one in each series.
VERONICA BELMONT: I'm excited.
FELICIA DAY: And the theme is--
BONNIE BURTON: Wait, is it this book?
VERONICA BELMONT: Space assassins!
FELICIA DAY: Space assassins!
VERONICA BELMONT: Space assassins!
FELICIA DAY: --and Bonnie.
BONNIE BURTON: It's not this book, is it?
Because I already bought it.
VERONICA BELMONT: You can read that, too.
FELICIA DAY: So space assassins is our theme of the
month, and our two picks are "Assassins in
Love" by Kris DeLake.
It's just right there.
Love the nose.
I don't know if there's another one out in the series,
but that's our primary, main pick.
And our secondary pick is called "Born of Night." And
it's by Sherrilyn Kenyon.
It's The League, number one.
So there are definitely several out in that series.
So these are the kind books you could read in a night.
Or at least I could.
You could speed read them.
And they're very fun.
I really hope everybody enjoys them.
And they also--
BONNIE BURTON: I'm excited.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah, I am, too.
I'm pretty excited.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Me, too.
Space assassins!
Do they attack--
BONNIE BURTON: They hit me at space--
KIALA KAZEBEE: Don't tell me!
Don't tell me!
FELICIA DAY: I know.
And our Hangout will be on August 27.
So they're faster books.
So we'll be able to all read, hopefully, within the time
whichever ones you want to read.
BONNIE BURTON: I wanted to thank people, if you wouldn't
mind, at the end of this?
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: Because so many of our fans came up to us at
both VidCon and Comic Con.
FELICIA DAY: Yeah.
BONNIE BURTON: And I want to say thank you, especially the
people that came to obviously our panel at VidCon where we
had stackable wine so that we were in
character, ie, not sober.
Though Felicia didn't drink anything, but
the rest of us did.
So I want to say thank you to the people that came to our
VidCon panel.
And also at Comic Con who came to watch us play board games
at the Geek and Sundry headquarters and brought us
gifts like tentacle kitty.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yay, tentacle kitty!
I've got mine over here.
BONNIE BURTON: And VidCon, they brought us cool
fingernail things.
VERONICA BELMONT: Yes, Espionage Cosmetics.
I've got my space nails.
BONNIE BURTON: And then obviously, free wine, and
people brought us mead and things.
So I just wanted to say thank you so much to our fans for
being so awesome and giving us free stuff.
Though we love the fans that don't give us stuff, too.
FELICIA DAY: All fans are good.
VERONICA BELMONT: I forgot a very important cat dragon pic
that I think needs to go mentioned.
KIALA KAZEBEE: Oh, god!
VERONICA BELMONT: It is the clay cat dragon from--
FELICIA DAY: Oh, yeah!
VERONICA BELMONT: Her name is Danielle at Omalora.
She mentioned that I forgot her.
And I did.
And I'm sorry.
You made a cat dragon out of clay with our faces on it.
FELICIA DAY: That one deserves a prize.
KIALA KAZEBEE: I like how thin I look.
[LAUGHTER]
FELICIA DAY: You do look very thin.
You look good.
Your hair is excellent.
BONNIE BURTON: It's the clay diet.
VERONICA BELMONT: So thank you.
Thank you, Danielle, also.
BONNIE BURTON: Yeah.
I want to say thank you for all of our fans that send us
pictures on Twitter and keep us
entertained in between episodes.
Because this is why we do this, is for
awesome people like you.
FELICIA DAY: And please join the forums.
Check out the Goodreads forums.
It'll be in the metadata below tomorrow, or you can just
search Goodreads for "Vaginal Fantasy."
There are a lot of people on there interacting, talking
about other books they're reading, and
meeting up, even in person.
So we love this community.
And we love being a part of it.
And thank you for reading along with us.
All right.
I'll see you next month.
Bye!
BONNIE BURTON: Bye, guys.
VERONICA BELMONT: Thank you!