Conversational Skills Physical Escalation And Logistical Escalation - Interview with matt

Hey guys, this is Andriy Snip. Thank you for watching Snip Reviews. In the coming interview, that we recorded with dating coach Matt Novak, we go into details about conversational skills, physical escalation, and logistical escalation. Here comes Matt Novak. Firstly, thanks for having me, Andriy. I love the opportunity to be able to spread my message and reach more people and have an impact on guys' lives. My background, I have sort of combined background. I am a seduction coach, I've been coaching pretty heavily in the past five years, but I am also a peak performance coach. I work with elite athletes, and Olympic athletes, and I sort of taken philosophies and principles from those two worlds and merged them together. My background was such that I struggled with women growing up, and eventually I got to a point in my life, where I was doing pretty well in a lot of areas, but struggling with women. And I said "This is not who I want to be. There is more for me out there". That was the transition that I made and that is what I work with my students on. The reason I wanted to have you here is because I know that you have experience coaching, and you see students make change in their life, and you see what works and what does not for them. For me the most interesting thing is what makes a difference for your students. Is there something that you notice that they do, or start doing, or stop doing, that gives them big breakthrough? Yes, I find that I am the coach that guys come to when they've been to see a lot of people and they can't get that breakthrough. I seem to be the guy that works with a lot of those students. And I am able to help them to make that shift. I think the thing that stands out for me, is that when a guy comes to me, what he is looking for is what he can add to his game to make the difference. We call it "magic bullets". The guy is looking for that one next magic bullet, that next routine, that next line, that next thing that he can do, that can get him over the edge. And often happens that once he gets that magic bullet, he gets an instant spike in his results, that comes from that placebo confidence that he developed, however over time he seems to get back into the old pattern of not getting the results he wants and continue to seek that next big thing that's going to make next spike. Well, me, up until this very moment, have been thinking that my journey of growing is about finding my next magic bullet, implementing it, then falling back, then finding another magic bullet. And you are saying that there is a different way? Yes. Usually, what stops a guy from having a success he wants, is not that he does not know enough, but rather that he's got too much floating around. In my experience this search for constant things that we can add to ourselves just creates noise. And it actually distracts us from the core things that make the difference with girls. The twenty percent of actions that account for eighty percent results. When I work with a client, the first thing that we do, is we explore what I refer to as the core pillars. The Three Core Pillars. And, the Core Pillars are...? The Core Pillars, in my perspective, are the three things that I learned when I was exploring what got me results. These are the things that made the biggest difference: - Being great at conversation game - Being able to physically escalate with a girl - And being able to logistically escalate with a girl You noticed that I mentioned escalation. That's a really key component when you are interacting with women. If you know how to escalate things with your conversation, escalate things with your touch, and escalate things with your logistics, then you are going to have success. Essentially it works like this: if you can talk to girls, touch girls, and move them -- that's really all you need to be able to do. And if you focus on just being great at those, what happens is that you have a lot more clarity when you are talking to women. The way I see it, the reason I am looking for next magic bullet, I am looking for a new way to do my conversational skills better. But now you are saying is that I should remove something. What is it that I am actually removing? What you are removing is the noise. All the little routines, all the things that actually stop you from being present with a girl. There is nothing wrong with wanting to become better with you conversational skills, but there is a right way to do it, and the wrong way to do it. One of the things that trips guys up conversationally is that they feel like they have to say the perfect thing, whether it has to be the perfect line, or with the perfect timing. Something that lets a girl know that you are interesting. It could not be further from the truth. Your goal when you communicate with a girl is firstly to find out what is interesting about her, to find out whether she fits your criteria, as someone you are looking for, and the second thing is just to be able to buy yourself time so you can physically escalate and logistically escalate. For you, with your particular goal of trying to come up with the right thing to say, what you are actually doing is that you are taking yourself out of your present moment with girls, and you are putting yourself in your head. And when we do that, what happens is that our thoughts get in the way of being able to just present ourselves, being able to enjoy the moment with a girl. And that is what natural attraction is about. It is about being yourself fully, but being your best self. So, that was the Conversational Skills. And the way to become better with conversational skills is not to be anything, but just... Once again, how do I become better at conversational skills? There are few keys to it. One of the philosophies that I work on is the concept of threading in conversations. The number one mistake I see people make is - essentially they get caught in question trains. You see it all the time with the guys, he'll meet a girl, and he'll get caught on a chain of asking sequence questions: "How's your day been?" "What are you up to?" "Who are you here with?" "Where you going?" and you can literally feel your value dropping as you have that conversation with a girl. Being great at threading is about being able to make statements that have two or three potential threads that a girl can pick up on and then relate her own experiences. What's an example of a statement like this? Instead of asking "Hey Matt, what do you do?" and "How was your day?" and so on, how would I restructure the question, so it is actually a threaded question? I would not necessarily restructure the question. I'd just make a statement instead. If a girl asks me how my day's been, answer that most guys would give a girl is "Good. How about yours?", and that, once again, just perpetuates that question train. So when a girl actually asks me how my day's been, I really want to be clear and tell her "It's been great. I've been out in the City, the weather is beautiful, I am looking to buy a new suit for my sister's wedding, which I am flying to later on in the week". In that statement that I've given her now what happens is that there is a number of interesting threads in there that she can pick up on. And she can either relate her own experiences in terms on going shopping, buying suits, going to weddings, flying, what she's doing later in the week, or she might choose to actually ask a question about any one of those threads. So, I flipped the question train on its head essentially. Beautiful. So the way the conversation structure works , is that I say something interesting, and then it is up to a girl to contribute, right? It is my expectation that a girl would contribute. That's really key. When I make a statement and I thread to a girl, I do what we call a "vacuum". I sit there, I hold space, and I give her the space to be actually able to respond. So, I am expecting her to respond. That's really a key. I think that a mistake that I've been making so far is having all these amazing things going on in my life, but when somebody asks me about my day, I would kind of brag about it, and expect the other person say "Oh, you are cool", and then I would interrupt them again, and I would never vacuum or expect them to contribute to conversation. It is a mistake that a lot of guys make. They feel that they have to be impressive conversationally. What you really want to do, and it is fantastic that you have this great things going on in your life, but you almost want to put a girl in a position where she can tease those things out of you. If a girl asks me what I do for a job, I have a really exciting job btw, but I don't want to come out and tell her everything, I just want to give her a snippet of it. I will tell her that I am a coach, and that's going to peak her curiosity, she is going to want to find out more. So now she is sourcing that information from me, she has to dig for it, and I am just lacing the conversation with enough intrigue, and enough potential threads, that she is going to want to do that, she is going to want to dig a little bit deeper. Right. The conversations I will be looking for from now on is that I reveal something interesting, and I expect a girl to contribute, and ask me more questions, or say something interesting about it. Absolutely. But don't be too attached to it. Having that ability, so when she does not respond, then you might through a question in. The difference is that you've actually gone with a statement first, and you don't necessarily lose value. Whereas when you ask a lot of questions, and you are the person that is seeking all the information, and it's like you are chasing that from her, you are going to lose value in that situation. But when you share information, you tell her a little bit about yourself, then you ask a follow up question, the conversation flows a lot more naturally. Beautiful. I think we covered this topic. I like how it went. I have something interesting to try next time. Let's move on to the Second Pillar of physical escalation. Physical escalation is really where the game is played. Essentially physical escalation is about moving through three levels. In fact, all my interactions move through three levels. There is a platonic level, a personal level, and a *** level. When you first meet someone, generally you have that platonic vibe going on. You know that because you are only revealing surface information about yourself, the person you are talking to is only revealing surface information. Then what you want to be able to do, is to transition to a personal level, when you actually start revealing more stuff about yourself. And you are talking about the conversation, right? No, we are talking about the vibe of the interaction. I'll let you know in a minute how this links in with touch. And then you want to be able to escalate the interaction from a personal level to a *** level. When you first meet someone, touch wise, there is a platonic level, a personal level, and a *** level. So, you would know, when you spend time with your friends, or people you are comfortable with, you can get closer to them. You can touch them in a certain way. Likewise, when you are in a *** relationship with a girl, there is a level of touch that's acceptable. It's exactly the same when you first meet someone. There is a platonic level of touch that is acceptable. So, if you met someone, and you went up to give them a hug, that's something that you can do as you become a bit more advanced, but if you are not hundred percent strong in your identity, it's going to creep them out a little bit. However, if you went up and shoot their hand, or if you just touched them on the back of their elbow, that is a level of touch that is quite acceptable in any sort of interaction. So, we talk about escalating the physical touch. It is about moving your touch from a platonic level, to a more personal level. And the personal level might be when you can touch someone on their torso, touch someone on their legs. And a *** level of touch is something when you might be able to touch their face or their hair. It's been really well laid out in the DiCarlo Escalation Ladder, so I won't go too deep into that model. But essentially the way it works is that you want to have a lot of incidental touches. This is an absolute gold that I learned from you about a year ago. I used to hug girls, and do something really open and ridiculous, and I had several first dates that I completely screwed up because of that. And once I started doing incidental touching it totally changed my interactions. So what is the incidental touching? It is touching that flies under radar. It affects a girl on a subconscious level. She is aware of what is going on subconsciously, but consciously she is in the moment with you having a conversation. It might be when you do extended gestures, it might be light touches for brief moments, but essentially it is a safe level of touch that cant' be interpreted as being aggressively ***. The more times you do this incidental touch, the more comfortable she becomes with you touch. And then when you do more overt, stronger level of touch, she is far more responsive to it. So she is going to be comfortable with it. Exactly right. So, in your situation, when you are coming up, and you are hugging a girl, and you would often come in very high energy, there is nothing wrong with that. But building up to that will be far more effective. Even if it is a girl that you've met before, when you go on a date, you actually want to start back at the platonic level. It's just that you can move from platonic to personal to *** much quicker, because you've already done it once before. But you have to go back and recognize that her energy is back at that place where she is a little unsure, she is a bit hesitant, so if you come in at a more platonic level with your touch, with your communication, and with your logistics, then you can escalate things to a more *** level. Just want to summarize this. With the physical escalation we have three levels, first one the way you touch your friends, second one... No, I would say the way you touch strangers. That's platonic. Second one is when you are bit more comfortable, and then ***. And the best way to start with touch is to do it incidentally. In a way that is so subtle that a person would wonder if it is really a touch or not. Exactly right. And if you get them wondering... When I touch girls, in the back of their mind I am sure they are asking themselves, I might gesture with my hand and lightly brush their breast, I am sure they are wondering "Did he mean that?" Don't go for the breast right away. You know, if you are doing incidental touching, and you've good stillness within you, there is nothing wrong with it. Because, once again, it flies under radar. But if they are questioning "Did he meant that, or was it an accident", that's a really great place to be in. Yohoo! The Third Pillar, logistical escalation. What is it and why is it so important? Logistics, if you jump on Google and you type in "logistics", it talks about the movement, or the flow of goods from the point of origin to the point of destination. And essentially that's a really great description in terms of how it can be incorporated into seduction. It is about moving a girl from a point where you meet her to the end destination. Which, in many cases, is going to be her bedroom, your bedroom, somewhere where you can get a little bit more intimate with her. Once again, if you try to move her from the point of origin to the end destination in one step, you are going to have success some times, but the consistency of that success is going to be up and down. A much better approach is to make mini logistical movement throughout the interaction. That's one of the reasons we are talking about, when you are on a date with a girl, making sure you go to multiple places, because when she gets comfortable at moving with you, then she gets much more comfortable at the idea of going to your place at the end of the day. One of the things that happens is that when you move through a lot of places it creates a mini time distortion. It makes someone feel like they've spent more time with you. And it will help to build that comfort with a girl. That's one of the big advantages of logistical escalation. And what about the smallest step of logistical escalation. That is something that I also learned from you. When I am talking to a girl first time, turn her around a little bit. Then invite her to come and sit on a couch with me. One can start as small as that. Let's talk about platonic level logistics, which is literally just the personal space that you have between the two of you. If you are standing directly in front of a girl, facing her, and you get really close, she is going to be a little bit uncomfortable, right? That's something that you would feel more comfortable doing with people that you know, people that you feel safe with. When you first interact with a girl, you want to pivot your body away from her. So you are almost at a ninety degree angle with her. You can still get quite close to them, but by placing your shoulder next to their shoulder and opening up your positioning, you are not directly in front of them. So, the first step in logistics is being able to slightly shift her. One of the things that we worked on with yourself was taking a small step backwards, outside of her vision, to see if you could turn her towards you. Or may be slightly pivoting your body so you become slightly more face on with her. And just seeing how responsive she is. That's a really basic level of logistics. From there you might be able to do a mini isolation, which is where you move her away two meters or three meters. And it might be that you want to show her something. Like "hey, come over here. I want to show you something over here". Or "I want to get your opinion on this painting" as an example. From there you want to progress to full isolation, which is moving her five or ten meters to some couches, or somewhere where the two of you can create that space around you. You almost got that "just you and her" bubble together. If you can get great at doing that, and doing that within first two or three minutes with a girl... That is really important part. Doing it within two or three minutes. You know what, you can do it later, but I find that that's a limiting belief that exists within guys heads. I think it gets harder. If the time passes, and if I don't do any logistical escalation, any movement within five minutes, I think it is just not going to happen. It is because you are not building any momentum in the interaction. The quicker that you can escalate things, the more momentum you have, and the more invested the girl becomes in you, so it does become easier to have further compliance tests. One of the eye opening things for me was that I expected that the first conversation should go on for thirty minutes before something happens. And then, after talking to you, I realized that within two minutes I should move her, and within five minutes we should be on a couch, or standing at the bar stand. Definitely, yes. And there is a variety of reasons why that is important. One of the reasons is that when you first meet a girl, that is probably going to be when you are going to be at your most attractive. And the reason I say that is, every girl has this fantasy, this idea inside her head, of who her ideal man is, her prince charming. And when a stranger comes up and approaches her on a street, or meets her in a bar and comes up with a lot of confidence, instantly she is going back to this image in the back of her head, of who her Prince Charming is, and she is going "Is this the guy? Could this be the guy?" And at that point you actually have a lot of value because of the confidence and directness that you've shown. I always feel like it is a spark of energy, just because I am so scared to walk up to a girl, or especially group of girls. For me, walking up is a spike of energy, and then this energy goes down, it has to go down. It does not have to. I do appreciate what you are saying about the spike of energy when you actually push yourself out of your comfort zone and when you do something like that. But as you become more comfortable and more confident, what will happen is that you will actually be able to control the energy of the interaction. Great! I think it's been absolute fantastic interview, I've learned lots and lots of stuff, and you guys I am sure will do, let's finish up with an inspirational message from Matt Novak to everyone who is on their journey to become better with women. You know what, I am not sure about inspirational messages. But to me, the journey to becoming better with women is really the journey of conquering yourself. And that is why for me this process is a life long journey. A lot of guys come to me and they say "I just want to have this part of my life handled. I just want to fix this once and for all". That was my perspective when I started too, but the reality is, the process of meeting women, attracting women, finding women that make your life a better life, is really about conquering yourself. It is about conquering your fear, it is about learning your own value and actually having an appreciation of who you are as a person. I just encourage guys when it is challenging, and there are times when it is challenging, remember -- it is not just about the women, it is about bringing yourself closer to yourself, and becoming the best person that you can be. Yohoo!