Tuskegee Airmen Episode 1

Welcome to the DL info channel. Thank you for joining us today as we fly through African American history with the Tuskegee airmen. I'm Karyn Ricks your host and today we are honored and privileged to be in the presence of a documented original Tuskegee Airmen. We have chief Master Sgt. Grant Williams Senior. Welcome! Thank you for having me. and we would also like to welcome our virtual audience that's connected live with us today. We have Meek Elementary School, welcome Meek Elementary. Students: Welcome! and we would like to extend that invitation to the students who are using Meek High Schools unit, so welcome students out at Meek High School. Students: Welcome! And thanks to all that are joining us via video conferencing on our DLiNfo channel and you can interact live with our original Tuskegee Airman by sending your questions into DLiNfochannel@gmail.com. We have students all around the world actually that are studying history and sometimes they're coming across the term Tuskegee. Can you tell us who are the Tuskeegee Airmen? The Tuskegee Airmen are you group of men, black men who were the first combat pilots for America. Alright and our second question on the list is how did you become involved with Tuskegee? Oddly enough I wasn't a volunteer, I came in through the draft and was sent to Tuskegee for basic training and then assigned to a unit that was designed to support the flying element. Okay so that's interesting, okay which leads us to our third question. Which is, what was your role, your actual role when you were with the Tuskegee group? After completion of my basic training I went, I started training to become a clerk and I served in that capacity in and advanced to a little bit higher calling and later became first sergeant of the squadron and eventually I became group sergeant major which was the senior enlisted draft in the group of squadrons who supported the flying element. Okay now is that the 332nd squadron in specific? No that was not in the fighter program or unit but it was in the support squadron it was called headquarters squadron of the 96th air service group which was designed to do everything necessary for the flying units to do their job. Okay now did you ever want to be a pilot? I can't say that I did. I had some experience with civilian pilot training but I didn't think about becoming a pilot and I found out once I arrived at Tuskegee and saw what was going on, I still didn't fancy the idea of becoming a pilot myself but I had no qualms about doing what I could to keep the flying men in the air. Okay great, now moving onto the fifth question. Some of the viewers may not want to be a pilot, also many think that Tuskegee is only for pilots. What other careers does Tuskegee support? The organization in which I was assigned had people who were trained to do everything that was necessary to keep the pilots in the air. Now in the group program we had weather people, we had cooks, we had people to repair everything that could go, that could get broken. Everything to run an organization so we had people designed for all of the support portions of the organization. Okay that's good information to know, so students can exercise choice and to still include Tuskegee as one of those opportunities because it's not just for pilots it supports a lot of different careers. Alright when the defense department launched the program to train the first black military pilots and aircrews. What was your initial reaction? Actually I wasn't in on that portion. My knowledge of the division only came after the first or the initial people had been assigned to the organization. They trained at a distance from Tuskegee. The program didn't start at Tuskegee actually. (Oh okay) The first people to be trained for the duty at Tuskegee trained at Chanute field Illinois and those men went through the various classes that prepared them to do all of these things. For example we had people studying weather, so we had some weather forecasters, we had truck drivers, we had mechanics, everything that was necessary. So once that first element was trained at Chanute Field. The airfield at Tuskegee was being prepared and when just about the time when it was ready they sent those men down to Alabama. The airfield wasn't ready at that time so they stopped at another airbase until the airfield at Tuskegee was completed and ready to except some 300 or more enlisted men and officers to do the work at Tuskegee. Okay and this is Moton Field? No that wasn't Moton Field. Moton Field was adjacent to the Tuskegee Army Airfield. I saw something recently where it gave that impression that that was the Tuskegee Army Airfield but that was adjacent to where the main flying was done, but the men who trained at Tuskegee Institute. They did their flying training at Moten Field, but when the the main element was at Tuskegee it was at a different field rather than Moton Field. The field that was adjacent to Moton Field. Okay thanks for clarifying that that is good information to have. Did you support any planes administratively? Did you support any planes as they were going through their involvement in the war? Well we didn't come in connection with very much in the airplane work we had people in our organization who were trained specifically for certain tasks. So what ever work had to be done on the airplane for example our organization was designed to support and do all the repairs on the aircraft up to something that had to go back to the depot and the people that we had like I said had various jobs, weather people for example we had the truck drivers, ammunition people who had to prepare the ammunition and things of that sort. So we had specialists in each area. Okay alright now there's a lot of talk when you're discussing World War II and they're talking about the Tuskegee Aairmen. There's a lot of talk about the P-51, what was the P-51? The P-51 was one of the best or was the best airplane. When the organization first started we didn't have the P-51. Our initial airplanes were some worn-out airplanes that were used back in Claire Chennault days, that's fighting the war in China and they were hand-me-downs so to speak. The first decent plane they got were the P-40 and they used that until the first squadron went over seas. They were using the P-40. When the 332nd, which was four additional squadrons. When that was activated they got a newer airplane which was a P-39 the Airacobra. They flew the Airacobra until the four squadrons joined upon arrival in Italy and that was a pretty good airplane, but for a short while they got another airplane that we hear little about or talked about because it was used for such a short period of time. They got the P-47 and eventually they got the best airplane that we had, which was a P-51 and that's where the the P-47 did something that no other airplane did do. During World War II those guys sank a military Destroyer with machine gun ammunition only for example and that was a claim to fame for that airplane. Okay so the science behind the P-51, that kind of set it apart from the other aircraft is that it had increased range. That's right, which allowed them to go further into enemy territory. It actually had the capacity to put on additional wing tanks and they did have some missions where those wing tanks came in very handy. Okay, now students and educators they may be curious to know what that P in P-51 stands for. It actually stands for Pursuit. Pursuit plane, they later changed the designation and it became fighters. So is there an F for fighters or just a P? Well they still call it the P-51, but they just changed the usage. Yes. Okay so that's an interesting thing for students to think about is that each plane had a different role too. That's right now the Tuskegee airmen at this point were using all fighter planes. Now see they did use the different planes. They had some bombers, a bomber unit was developed and that came much later in the program. Okay so the P-51 did more support for the other bombing planes? Well they did a better job, that's the thing. They had a longer-range and as I said in using the additional wing tanks they were able to make some extremely long flights. Okay and with them being able to go into, go further into enemy territory they really saved a lot of the bombing planes from being what they called sitting ducks and being exposed to enemy fire. Alright so you're going a little bit into it. How exactly did the P-51 make a notable contribution to the success of the Tuskegee Airmen. For one thing and there was one mission for example that was extremely important. Some of you may have heard that of the great train robbery they talk about how supply people used some tactics that were a little bit unusual but on the longest mission that was performed in World War II was a 1600 mile round trip to Berlin. Oddly enough that particular Mission wasn't planned for the Tuskegee Airmen but because of the fact that at that time they didn't have the mileage range that would take them to the target and back, but our supply people using some ingenuity, heard that there was a train down between Gary which was a port where the airplanes would come in and where they were stationed. They heard that there was some wing tanks on a train and they sent our supply people down and talked the engineers into allowing them to remove those tanks. They worked all night to get them put on the airplane and the next morning when they took off for this long flight, where they expected to have additional airplanes to meet them and take over to complete the mission for some reason or another the guys didn't show up. They had problems with weather and our men were able, because they had intercepted a train with the larger wing tanks on them they worked all night and got them ready for the next day and they were able to complete that mission. It's an interesting story along with that particular mission. With the fact that the relief didn't show up and they were able to complete the Mission they saved the system because otherwise they would have been lost. They wouldn't have been able to complete the flight and they also on that particular mission did something that was very odd while we didn't have any aircraft with jet engines they encountered some jets and they were able to defend themselves and they shot down three jets on that particular mission. So that's one of the nice things that happened as a result of their ingenuity. Oh that's remarkable and the science behind that. What they were saying is that the P-51 had a little bit better maneuverability, where as the Jets couldn't turn as fast so that made them capable of being shot down by the P-51 airmen. Okay and we're gonna move to the next question okay and this is going to get a little bit, I want to know how you feel about this. Fighting for your country is honorable but not always glamorous, a slogan used many times during war. Now this may have definitely been relevant as you fought against fascism abroad and racism here at home what made you persevere? Well we had a leader and I give him credit for instilling in his men the importance of success. He explained to his men the job that they had to do and he had a rough time in becoming a pilot for example. He had spent four years at West Point being the only black man there. He had to suffer some things that no human being should be required to do. He had to take his meals separately cause no one would sit down with him and when I say that was just one situation. During the week he had his meals with his classmates but on weekends he had to stop at each table and ask for permission to be seated. He was consistently refused, he was the only black man at West Point, but he was determined to succeed, so he talked to his men and let them know what they were up against and they took him at his word. So these men felt like supporting him and they did everything they could to support him and they did. So as a result of that, the idea this is the first opportunity that people of color had an opportunity to fly airplanes and to have the opportunity to succeed at all costs. He says we must win and as a result of that these men took him at his word and they made a record that no other unit before or since has been able to accomplish and we feel that his attitude caused them, caused us to do the best job that we could do and I think we did a pretty good job. Yes you did, you did an excellent job and this is why we're honoring you today. We feel very privileged to be here with you. Okay so despite of the repeated message that you as a race couldn't do it or weren't capable how did you remain focused and determined? Well in war time if you didn't get hurt one way, if you didn't protect yourself the best you could you couldn't succeed. So we did everything we could to support the cause and as we learned a little bit at the time that we were accomplishing something. That made us feel better and our guys just decided that we are in this war and we're gonna win it. Okay so you're saying that you felt accomplishments toward eradicating racism at home? Well at home we didn't know how things were going at home but we'd hoped that things are going to be better. It didn't happen that fast; however I feel that the job that we did overseas had a lot to do with where we stand today. If we hadn't accomplished something out of the ordinary I think we would've been in the same place where we started out, but I think with the accomplishment of this organization had a lot to do with the status that we have today. Okay and I know that the change was slow like you were saying to notice the change at home was it or did it seem faster when you are abroad? No because when we came home we found the same thing, for example we went over seas the ship that I was on left from Newport News, Virginia. When I came back into Newport News we went out, we had different gates, one for whites and one for colored. We were called colored people back in those days. When the war came and was over we found the same thing, no change and it took a long time before any change could be seen. Eventually America decided to make a change and of course now living in a different world. We would like to know that and appreciate that your contributions help to further those changes and so kids are now learning and some re-learning about the Tuskeegee airmen and many will go see the movie Red Tails which is actually playing in theaters now. What do you want them to consider or know specifically about Tuskegee when they're watching this movie? I want them to realize and compare of where we stand today as opposed to what it was back in in the 1940s and if you're honest you'll see that there's a world of difference. We are able now to be anything that we want to be if we put our minds to it. Who would have thought that the time would come to have a black president so once that happens then the skies the limit. That's a good motto for the students out there to know that the sky is the limit. You set your goal, your destination and you can achieve whatever your heart desires. It's a good motto to live by. Alright now after the students have watched the Read Tails movie what message would you hope they gained from the movie? I think the message that we want them to realize is that we made a comment about it. That the world is open and if you strive to do the best that you can, that's all that we can hope for but experience has taught us that if we try hard enough we can succeed and we can change the attitude of those nonbelievers and it will make it a better place for all of us. Okay so students you hear it, you hear here from an Original Tuskegee Airmen that if you persevere and you set your goals high you can achieve whatever you set as your destination. I'd like to take a moment to have some of the students ask you some questions if you don't mind and remind our viewing audience that if you want to interact with Chief Master Sgt. Grant Williams Senior you can email those questions into DLinfochannel@gmail.com. So I'd like to first set up with Meek Elementary School and give the students a chance to ask some questions. Meek Elementary. Student: (Talk into the camera) How many bombers did you help? Karen: I'm sorry could you repeat that question Student: How many bombers did you help? Karen: How many bombers do you think the Tuskegee Airmen helped? I don't know how many unless you're talking about how many bombers we had are you talking on individuals or airplanes. Student: Bombers or Individuals. Individuals, okay we had right at 1000 pilots now we didn't, during World War II we didn't use bombers. That's a later portion of the program when we did have some bombers but they didn't fly in World War II they flew later on in Korea and Vietnam but we had fighter planes in World War II and we had right at 1000 pilots and for each pilot it takes 10 or more support people on the ground. So I've seen figures as high as 19,000 all together who fought in World War II does that answer your question? Student: Yes sir. Alright well we'll take another question from Meek Elementary. The student is a little shy. (Okay it's okay) Did you lose any battles or wars? Okay did you lose any battles or any wars? Well we lost some and we won some. We won the most though, we came home safe. Okay, okay alright one more question from Meek Elementary before we ask the students from MeeK High School to share their questions. They shied up on us, they don't want to ask any questions right now. Alright, okay well let's let Meek High School students have an opportunity to ask questions. So Meek Elementary if I can ask you to mute again and Meek High School students if you have any questions. Meek Elementary is using Meek High Schools equipment that's why we're showing up twice. Okay alright and I'm going to go to the email for those who are watching virtually to see if there are any email questions that have come in. Alright and we do have a question from, this school is in Missouri and the question is how often and how long was a training program at Tuskegee? I can't give you a specific time. If I recall the training program for the fighter pilots was something like 13 months, something in that area. Okay, so about a year training! Okay so we have another question that has come in from the email and this question is from Shelton out from Virginia Beach and his question is, what were they fighting for during World War II? So the student may be in and history class and is asking what were they fighting for during World War II, do you know the background? World War II was fought basically to make the world a little bit better place to live. Now there's a lot of things involved in that question, I'm just trying to figure out what specifically you're driving at. The one thing that I believe is that our people and I'm talking about America in general. I'm not talking about colored, I'm talking about everybody. We wanted to make America a better place to live and we wanted to make America so that the world would recognize it as being progressive rather than standing still. That's about as close as I can comment. I know you're not asking for specifics but you might be asking for specifics but I can't give you the specifics. Okay and they might be, they might have read in their textbooks about going to Berlin, going to Germany and fighting against Nazism and Hitler in regard to that, ending fascism which is that dictatorship that practiced on supremacy. Believing that one group of people were supreme or better than another group of people and eliminating people in that respect and so America went over there to help to end that and that would be pretty much a general overview of World War II and so as African-Americans took their part in it, it became I would think a personal fight because you saw that we were dealing with our own issues with the racism over here and that would give us more incentive to help other countries as well as help ourselves. Absolutely that was, that portion as being separate even from the other part. America wanted to set a pattern, it was a little different from what we had in of course the results and did in a difference. Okay one of the things that the students may not know is that the Tuskegee Airmen we're talking about the Tidewater Chapter because were in Virginia were in Hampton Virginia but there are Tuskegee Airmen all across the United States in different chapters. That's right I believe we have 54 or 55 chapters throughout the states with the Tuskeegee Airmen Program and for the young people we do have an aviation program for them. We have chapters with youngsters in there. We have a 15-year-old girl who flew from California to Newport News and back and she's not eligible for drivers license or an automobile drivers license, but she had a seasoned pilot with her and we have this program where we try to encourage kids to learn to fly at an early age and America wants to make America a better place to live and I think if our students would put their mind to it. You can go a long ways in helping make the world a better place. Alright and I want to open it's back up before I take any more email questions and remember if you are participating through the DLiNfo channel and you like to ask a question to Chief Master Sgt. Grant Williams Senior you can do so by e-mailing DLiNfochannel@Gmail.com. Meek Elementary I know you have some anxieties over there in Alabama do you have any last questions? I'mgoing to give you another opportunity to ask a question. I see some hands up there. Student : How was it being in World War II? How was it being in World War II? yes ma'am. Okay so how was it living through World War II? It was scary. You know as a soldier of or what we would call an Airmen. We were in danger all the time. We had to be careful on how you walked and where you walked. There were people over in other areas waiting to shoot, kill, and destroy you, so it was a little bit tough, scary, and I know you as youngsters don't want to get into anything like that. So as you grow up, you want to learn all you can and help to make America a better place to live. Okay so you have to be brave. Absolutely, yeah cause it's a scary situation being in another country, you know being at odds or at war to. It was a scary situation. Alright another question from Meek. Student: what did you eat? Okay so what did you eat, what type of food did they have for you when you're involved in the war? Well we had American food for the most part. I can tell you though that I was introduced through an Italian family of a dish that I had never had before and that was, I had some... Let's see how can I put it, I had some live no not live it was dead but I had some food that I haven't tested before in America and that was a rabbit that was tame and that was to think about it as a child it was scary but I found that they have a different name for it and it wound up being pretty good so we did learn to try some things that we haven't been exposed to before. Okay and that's good advice for the students out there to try some vegetables, try different things. Okay, I have a question that came in from the email and this is from Belinda out in Richmond, but she says well how long were you in Italy? About 22 months. Almost two years. Okay that's a good time to get acquainted with the environment. (Oh Yes!) Okay and there's another question from the email and this question comes from Westover High School in Illinois and it's how did you feel when you were in combat? Did you feel you would never return home those kind of anxieties? I wouldn't say that I was in combat I was in combat yes, but my work was sort of away from the action. I wasn't on a battlefield where we were shooting one to the other. So I didn't have the experience I think that you are asking for, but we were in an area where at any time an airplane could come over and drop bombs on you and it could happen and it was rather scary for example at one point I was in an area close enough where they could shoot ammunition over into the area where we live. It didn't, nobody got hurt in my organization but it was possible. Okay alright and I think I saw another hand up at out at our audience that is connected. Do you have any last questions before we draw a conclusion to our series today? Student: How many Tuskegee Airmen are still living? That question always comes up. Good question, well we really don't know as I mentioned earlier I've see figures as highest 19,000 total. I'm sure that that's a much lesser now. A couple years ago we had a convention and there is some 350 Original Tuskeegee Airman there. We don't have a real count of the number that we have left but we do know that they're dwindling every day and the last figure that I saw the estimate was just under 200 alive. I'm glad that I'm one of those who are still here but we don't have an accurate number. It won't take long before all of us will be gone. Okay so we went from approximately 19,000 and now today we're down to a little over 200. So this is why again we are very honored and appreciative to be able to talk with you today, such a distinction man of yourself and just again thank you for your contributions. Thank you for that question, any last questions? Student: How many planes where there estimated? I'm assuming that he's referring to the P-51 because it is the plane that is most often spoke about. How many planes estimated participated in the Tuskegee Airmen's group? We had a squadron of about 24 to 26 aircraft, we had so during the course of the war. I can give you some figures as to how many were lost but as far as the total number it's hard to say but you might be interested to know that out of our service that we had 66 pilots who were killed in action and 32 were forced down and taken as prisoners of war, but we had a pretty good number that survived. I don't have a figure and I should have of the number lost, actually lost in World War II but I do not have that. Okay and just to bridge an understanding to the students you mentioned squadrons. So different groups or squadrons came together and performed a larger whole of the Tuskegee Airmen? That's right you see, okay let's say we had approximately 6 squadrons in the group that I was in and each one would have something like 150 to 200 men so there were as I said approximately up to maybe 19,000 total and it dwindled down to just a matter of a few hundred now. Alright so I'm going to take some of the last questions from the email. This is coming from Sullivan and the question is, he's noticing that you have a lot of adornments on your lapel and wantsed to know what some of those credentials were. If you could just tell us a little bit about some of them. Well now these the ones that go like this are pins, they had nothing to do with my duty time. These are pins that like where I've spoken and someone has given me a pin. Now the others here, these are awards for my military service and they have like some good conduct and I do have two meritorious service medal's and just a few of those for doing good work or something like that. Alright and the red jacket would you like to explain to the students, because it's very distinguished I'm sure they may wonder why I don't have a red jacket. Yes there is a reason for the red jacket. Now I said we have some 54-55 chapters throughout the states and each chapter can do their own, choose their own jackets. Now we have some that have blue jackets some have black jackets. Ours is red for a significant reason, we elected our chapter elected to carry on the legacy, by using the red jacket to identify the Tuskeegee Airman. During the course of the war our chapter our organization the Tuskegee Airmen became famous for our accomplishments for shooting down airplanes and our pilots decided they wanted to let everybody know who they were because the bomber pilots didn't know that they were being escorted by black pilots. There was a seen in the movie for example where some pilots had been brought home from a mission and he went looking to find who it was that escorted them and they didn't want to believe it when they got to the organization. They didn't want to believe that they were black pilots that were escorting them and after that when they found out, then they started asking for the red jackets because the guys got the brightest red paint that they could find and painted the tail assemblies red and the Germans called them Swatch Vogel Mensha, Black Birdman. The Americans called them Redtail Angels because they were bringing home with fewer casualties. So we elected to use the red jacket to have respect for the Red Tails of the 332nd fighter group. Okay great reason to have it red (right). Alright so I want to thank our audience. Thank you Meek Elementary School students for joining us today. Thank our virtual audience for tuning into the DLiNfo channel, I hope that you'll be able to visit us again next week on Tuesday, when we continue to fly through African-American history with the Tuskegee Airmen and we will have our honored guest Sgt. Harry Quinton. So again I want to thank you Chief Master Sgt. Williams and goodbye.