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[Music] Al: Hi! My name is Al Getler. Welcome back
to another episode of Lead Or Be Led. We are going to take you right into our program today
because there are so much to talk about. Before we get in to it, I'm going to tell you first
of all that our guest is Nancy Duarte who is a world-renowned person. Just from the
stand point of presentation, I don't think there's anybody finer than her when it comes
to defining what makes a great presentation, what makes a speaker get in front of an audience
and deliver a message in a way that really cannot be duplicated unless you really dig
deep into some of the things that she has to put out.
To prove our point and to talk a bit about the background, let's take a look at three
outstanding presenters and then have Nancy join us.
Benjamin: Probably a lot of you know the story of the two sales man who went down to Africa
in the 1900s, they were sent down to find if there was any opportunity to selling shoes
and they wrote telegrams back to Manchester. One of them wrote, "Situation hopeless, stop.
They don't wear shoes." And the other one wrote, "Glorious opportunity, they don't have
any shoes yet." Ronald: ... And I want to say something to
the school children of America who are watching the live coverage of the shuttle's takeoff.
I know it's hard to understand but sometimes painful things like this happen. It's all
part of the process of expiration of discovery. It's all part of taking a chance and expanding
man's horizons. The future doesn't belong to the fainthearted, it belongs to the brave.
The Challenger crew was pulling us into the future and we will continue to follow them.
Steve: Today, Apple is going to reinvent the phone and here it is. Actually, here it is
but we're going to leave it there for now. Al: So you see three great presenters there
and you certainly can take away from that that these are three speakers, three presenters
that really know how to deliver something to their audience. My guest today as I mentioned
is Nancy Duarte. She is the founder of the Duarte Group. It's a group that dedicated
probably one of the few in the world out there dedicated to making presentations better.
Nancy please join our show. Nancy: Thank you.
Al: Welcome back. Nancy: It's good to see you again.
Al: Yeah, good to see you. This is part two of our conversation because we chatted it
up too much the last time when we started talking about your background. We're here
to talk about today your book Resonate. You mentioned the last time that this book which
is beautiful in print is coming out in a free E edition or free digital edition. If you
could just speak to that for one moment about what's going to be happening here real soon.
Nancy: I'm super excited about this. While I was writing the book, I always had this
kind of dual process the whole thing and you can see in the printed book there, there's
all these green WWW which means go to the website. We noticed not many people were going
to this website where there was amazing like ... In the book, I have just a picture of
Ronald Reagan, but on the multimedia version, we segmented out as whole talk and we actually
show you what audience he's talking to as he's talking.
There's such amazing video and it's so much more immersive. You could actually go in to
Dr. King's speech and interact with it. We made a whole widget. So it's completely different
experience than the static book. What it was is publishers are in a weird place
right now. I had to give my multimedia rights to my book to them, but I retained them in
this particular case for 50% verbatim and they can't do what I just did. They don't
know how to make a multimedia rich book and I just wanted to show the world how to do
right to set the standard of what a great visual business book should be. To do that,
I decided to give it away for free. Al: I don't know if it's by way of nature,
by of genetics or what it is, but when you talked about getting it done right, you just
seem to be a natural at this and you and your husband started this company producing 35mm
slides. Now, you are world-renowned for putting presentations together for some of the leaders
of industries, some of the leader of the arts, just leaders in general of society.
The first thing that you have in your book as a rule is that resonance causes change
and I think the first three speakers that we started this off today are three people
who do cause change. Now, someone may not be as familiar tuning in to our show today
with the first speaker. I'm kind of proud because he comes from the city that we're
close to which is Boston but tell us a bit about why you consider him one of the top
examples of a speaker that resonates. Nancy: The first person for people that didn't
recognize him, that was Ben Zander and he is the conductor of the Boston Pops. What
he has done is he has turned this inspirational talk about possibilities and at the same time,
there was a secondary message about falling in love with classical music again.
I'll never forget. I actually heard that talk live. It was my very first TED I'd never been
and he spoke at the first ten I ever went to and I wept through the whole thing. You
could see there's a take where I'm actually in the audience and my eye, he talks about
having shiny eyes that you know you've opened possibilities in someone when you can see
their eyes shining and my eyes were like, "boom." Little laser beams of shininess.
He's a delightful communicator. His energy is fantastic. He used a prop of the piano
and walks you through the structure of classical music and he makes you long for it. I think
any presenter who can create a sense of longing and desire of any kind is a fantastic communicator
and that's what Mr. Zander does. Al: It's something, I'll admit here on the
show, but I wake up to Ben quite often in the morning.
Nancy: Lucky man. Al: That's because we have a great public
radio station here that plays classical music and the symphony is quite often featured on
that. What he talks about in his TED Talk is absolutely brilliant. The way that he does
it really brings in. As you have talked about, knowing your audience and then bringing your
audience to a place with the way you present and the story that you tell.
The second speaker, you and I watched this once before we actually went alive on the
air. We both have the same reaction and that is watching Ronald Reagan address the nation
after the explosion of the Challenger which that particular spaceship, as a passenger,
as part of the crew for the first time a public school teacher that the entire country was
rooting for. Probably more school kids watched the launch of that mission than the Apollo
missions many years earlier. What is it about Ronald Reagan that made him
the great communicator that he was? Nancy: I love that question. He was elegant
and eloquent as a communicator. He had a lot of practice in front of the camera, obviously
because he came from that. He started as a spokesperson for GE and he had a way with
words that would dissipate. He could be in a very tense situation and just from the order
in which he puts his words in the types of use, word he used, he could dissipate or rally
almost anything under any situation. When you look at that particular speech, this
one about the space shuttle disaster, it's the first time a president had to eulogize
and address small children at the same time. He was brilliant. He addressed so many audiences
in that little three minute talk. It's amazing. He talked to the kids, he talked to the family
of the fallen, he talked to NASA. He poked a little stick at Russia a little bit, people
don't realize that. It was amazing. Then the school children obviously. He was just a brilliant,
concise. The concision of his words were just masterful.
Al: And the historical significance of the fact that a president giving up his State
of the Union Address to give ... What was that speech, maybe four or five minutes long
at the most. Nancy: Yeah, super short.
Al: It's a pretty astounding historical point too that you take the State of the Union and
push your side for that moment. Then, finally Steve Jobs who ... I mean, a lot of people
talk about Steve Jobs in his presentations but for good reasons. That moment that we
saw was the ultimate poke yourself in the eye moment that a CEO could possibly have.
Why was that moment a humor? Why did it land so smack-dab in the middle of the target?
Nancy: What happened is he is so brilliant at creating suspense and builds and builds
and builds and so when he's going to do this big reveal, he, like you said, played a joke
on the whole audience and it was kludgey and not anything. It was like what a phone dial
put on to an iPod. I think that he was hyping, so real suspense,
suspense, suspense and then he says he's going to reveal it and then he kind of pulls it
out of his pocket and puts it away. That's why people just sit with bated breath waiting
and waiting. Millions of people used to tune and just watch on video as he created this
huge suspense a new product. It was a way to have two arcs of suspense instead of just
one. He's just brilliant. Al: Yeah, it does set of wherever you're high.
Today is we're talking that the iPad updates have been released and not with quite the
same delivery as Steve Jobs had. Nancy, I want to dig a little deeper into your book
Resonate. You had a set of rules, it mentioned that,
first of all, resonance causes change. Your second rule is incorporating story into presentations
has an exceptional affect on the outcome. That's one of those statements that makes
my mind wonder a bit. Tell us what you mean in that rule.
Nancy: What happened was I went a three year journey of studying stories. Stories are this
container. It's a structure where content can pass down verbally through thousands of
generations. The structure is not only powerful but you also feel during a story. People don't
realize if you're sitting, listening to a good story, your eyes dilate because your
body just want to take more in, making a chill down your spine, your heart raises, you laugh,
you clap, you jump, you leap forward. Those are physical reactions to story.
Yet in companies today, we fall asleep. Presentations are boring and I wanted to figure out what
the gap was. The big gap is that people just don't feel and a story helps you feel. The
other thing that happens and that's what Mr. Jobs was kind of doing there was a story builds,
tension and it builds and then you release it and then it builds and builds. That's what
he did, he built tension and then released it comically.
I figured out from studying story and studying the greatest speeches that one of the classic
ways to build tension using a story pattern is the gap between what is and what could
be. You build and build this tension about how today is and then you say, "But, look
here is what could be." And then you give it a sense of release, so there's a tension
and release as a structural pattern that Reagan, Churchill, even Hitler, believe it or not,
used, Steve Jobs uses, Ben Zander uses. There's this pattern that they've been using
but they didn't necessarily intentionally or even know they were using it. They would
just write their speech and work it, work it, work it and then they're like, "It feels
done," and they happen to use a persuasive story pattern that creates tension and releases
it. That's the power of story. Al: Something just hit me as we're talking.
I'm a father of three daughters. Nancy: Congratulations.
Al: Thank you very much. They're beautiful women all of them and my wife is just spectacular
mother of them and wife to me and successful business woman. We're talking about these
communicators and we've said, "He, he, he, he, he" all along the way. It happen to know
you have the same name as my wife so I know Nancy Duarte happens to be a woman too. What's
going on? Why are we only talking about being here?
Nancy: I'm so happy you asked this question because people ask me who is the most powerful
female communicator at the ranks of MLK and it took me a long time to find this person.
I think it's because she's been hidden. She's a hidden person in history and you will never
guess who I'm going to say because it's Evita. There was a movie featuring Madonna. There
is a play on Broadway and these are written by men that wrote this. The very famous scene
where she sings Don't Cry For Me Argentina, she actually holds a big microphone. When
I saw it on Broadway again I'm like, "Yeah, you should maybe check out. She looks like
she's speaking to a crowd." She freaking spoke to two and a half million people. It's the
largest gathering to come and hear a woman speak in history.
Nobody could ever transcribe her speeches from Spanish to English and she is as great
of an orator as Dr. King. She was an orphan and she had sex with some politicians but
you know what, she changed so much. She got women to right to vote. She spent millions
on her foundation trying to turn around the fate of the poor. She bought cooking pots,
shoes, she created industry for the poor and the rich hated her. Just hated her.
When she's singing Don't Cry For Me Argentina, believe it or not, she gave her ten minute
talk. At the end of the talk, the audience started to cry out for her to run for the
vice presidency. They chanted together. Two and a half million people and she started
to have a conversion, "No me compadres, I'm not running for the vice president. I live
for my husband. I'm not running." She went back and forth with this. Finally, she collapse
in the arms of her husband exhausted and said, "They will not accept that I won't be the
next vice president." Nine days later, she had to do another speech
on the radio reconfirming, it's called the renunciation speech reconfirming, "I'm not
running for the vice presidency." She did so much for Argentina. She was the first woman
to campaign in the western hemisphere. First person that campaigned for her husband. She
broke a ton of stereotypes, but pop cultures turned her in to a *** and never celebrated
her words, never translated them to English. Her maiden name is Duarte which is interesting,
Evita Duarte Peron. I'm actually going to be doing a piece about
her because I get pretty impassioned about how society has buried who I think is probably
the ... She was deemed at one time, the most powerful woman in the western hemisphere.
Al: What a double standard that you identified some things that quote on quote made her ... You
can't give her the reputation that just gave her but yet there was many male politicians
that are far worse reputation. Nancy: Actually from her deathbed, she got
to vote so she pushed it around enough and it happened in her lifetime. I have a real
affection for her. Al: Talking directly to our audience. Talking
directly to woman that are out there right now, leaning of course, big hit right now,
stealing the best sellers list. When it comes to communication what is it that woman have
to do? I mean, I was saying get behind yourself. I tell people who are afraid to get out there
and speak. The first thing is to get behind yourself. Once you get behind yourself, then
there's so much more you can do, but if you're not behind yourself, who's going to be.
What is it that you would tell, even from the standpoint of leaning which I think is
already starting to become gone full circle and it's becoming, having the opposite effect
in some respects. What do you tell women who need to understand the importance of communication,
what they need to do starting today to change the fact that we have looked at all male communicators
and the next time we have this conversation, there should be a couple of females sprinkled
in there? Nancy: I do admire Sheryl Sandberg's communication
style. I think she's brilliant. I think another brilliant communicators, the CEO of Pepsi,
Indra Nooyi just completely under-celebrated female communicator.
Interestingly, you made a point, one of the things women have to do is actually like themselves.
I think there's a well of confidence that comes from this place of, instead of pity,
of power for lack of a better cliche word. One of the things I love about Evita Peron
was the way she connected from her heart with the audience. As a woman who is in a position
of power in the Silicon Valley, when I first moved here, the first thing I did ... We lived
in poverty. First thing I did is I went to Goodwill and I bought three suits that looked
like mens' suits just to play the part. Now, I've had to consciously be like, "No
Nancy, you were a dress. Wear a dress. Wear color. Wear something colorful. Be feminine
at work." Even Sheryl kind of mentioned that in her book. I think that women are afraid
to lead by our intuition and our heart which is actually our strength. Evita Peron, she
would tell the followers there. She says, "Oh, I symbolically press you hard against
my heart." She would talk effects, she would pour hearts
out. I think that's actually the strength of a woman and in business, it's kind of frowned
on. I think the women who took the risk and actually are themselves and as real as possible
are once that do get ahead. What's missing in business right now is a sense of belonging,
a sense of community and a sense of meaning and that's the one thing that woman are natural
at. We will always build community. We build we instead of me. So there's a big void there.
I think the woman with a clear enough voice and a clear enough focus could actually change
it around. It's an interesting season right now. I think
Sheryl's book is creating a lot of desire and a lot of ... I never thought I'd be part
of a woman's movement because I have never had a glass ceiling. I have got to build my
own business and be an entrepreneur. Her book made me realized we have a long way to go
and made me join a couple of chic groups and I'm supporting more women right now because
I was always like, "Well, if they can't figure it out," but my answer was just, "Be more
like a man dawg on it." Now I've changed my tune quite a bit and it's not really about
being more like a man, it's having room to be uniquely who we are.
Al: That's astounding and as a result of this, I throw out this piece of paper because we
didn't get to any of it but I really enjoyed what we just talked about and I'll be excited
to go home and tell my 10 year old tonight that she has something to look forward to,
because I think I've had a feeling that Nancy Duarte is going to have more to say about
this. Nancy it has been a pleasure. We're out of time and I've taken up so much of your
time and I appreciate the time you've given me. I'll leave an open invitation to come
back speak some more about this fabulous subject. I can't tell you again how much I enjoy the
material that you ... And I know you have a great group around you including your own
kids who are part of the company and I think that's amazing as well too. Your husband is
the CFO and director of MIS and it's a real family effort as well as some great employees
around you that I have been faced with. So congratulations of building your great company.
Congratulations on helping us as presenters. We really think more before we get up in front
of an audience with, God help us with PowerPoint slide and for Jesus out of people.
Nancy thank you very much. I can't tell you how much. I appreciate it. Before you go.
One more time. You need to sell some books because you're going to be giving it away
soon but you need to get to some print, Resonate, it's just a beautiful book. I don't think
I've had your other books up in this show. The Harvard Business Review Press book on
persuasive presentations and finally, to me, the one that really had you hit the map and
that's Slide:ology. If you want to learn more about Nancy Duarte
and your company, where do we go? Nancy: You go to www.duarte.com or I'm on
Twitter @nancyduarte or @duarte and I do connect with everyone on LinkedIn that asks me.
Al: Outstanding. That's great. Nancy, again, thank you so much and we hope to have you
back real soon. Nancy: Thank you. Thanks a ton. We'll see
you soon. Al: Thanks. Take care. Well folks, that rubs
up another episode of Lead Or Be Led. We're really proud of some of the guests that we
have. I'm especially proud and actually sitting here today at the show that we just did and
I hope you will tweet about it. I hope you will forward it along to folks and certainly
comment about it. With that, I want to thank you for joining us. Tune in again for another
episode of Lead Or Be Led. I'm Al Getler. Thanks.
[Music] LOBL_Episode_41 (Completed 11/13/13)
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