Bachfest Leipzig - In conversation with alexander steinhilber and peter wollny [english subtitles]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Summer Hall at the Bach Museum. I'm delighted to see such a big audience. 'The True Art' is the motto of this year's Bachfest. I'm pleased to be able to open this series of debates in the run-up to the festival. I'd like to welcome Dr Steinhilber, head of music at Hamburg's culture department, and Dr Peter Wollny, the director of the Bach Archive. Today we want to get you in the mood for this special year devoted to C.P.E. Bach, J.S. Bach's second surviving son. It's not long until the 300th anniversary of C.P.E. Bach's birth on 8 March. We want to talk about C.P.E. Bach as a composer. I also want to introduce a fascinating project a separate network of cities where C.P.E. Bach once lived and worked. And we'll be talking about the Bachfest programme. We want to chart C.P.E. Bach's position in the development of music from 300 years ago until today. Dr Steinhilber, you initiated the network of cities named 'C.P.E. Bach 1714'. Tell us about how it all began. The idea came about in a curious fashion. In early 2012, I received an email from somebody who was interested in church interiors. He enclosed a photo of a music stand for choir singers he had found at St Peter's Church in Hamburg marked with the initials 'E.B.'. He said he had looked up Hamburg's musical history and come across Emanuel Bach, a composer he was completely unaware of. I decided that something needed to be done to raise the profile of the 'Hamburg Bach'. His tercentenary in 2014 came at just the right time. In mid-2012 we met up with leading musical figures from Hamburg to see what could be done. Many people were interested in taking part and so we joined forces to ensure a greater impact. I said there were other cities associated with C.P.E. Bach and perhaps he's not very well known there either! I phoned the members of what became the network and asked whether they wanted to join in and make C.P.E. Bach better known. What cities are involved? Certainly his native town. Weimar, where he was born. Leipzig, where he moved in 1723 with his father and began studying law. Frankfurt/Oder, where he continued his studies. Berlin and Potsdam, where he played in Frederick II's orchestra. And Hamburg, the final city where he lived and worked, and where he was also buried. I assume that when you called Leipzig, you didn't have to explain who C.P.E. Bach was … No! … but how about the other cities? I didn't have to explain to them either! He's very famous in Weimar and especially in Frankfurt/Oder. And in Berlin and Potsdam they knew all about C.P.E. Bach as a composer known not only as the 'Hamburg Bach' but also the 'Berlin Bach'. And then you got together and thought about what could be done. What can we look forward to this year? We met up in early 2013 with not much time left before the jubilee year. We agreed that instead of staging joint activities, we would coordinate our separate activities. We all knew that we would be organizing events and publications as well as conducting publicity and marketing. We realized that the best way to communicate the jubilee was in a joint website instead of the print media. The website contains a calendar of events during 2014 as well as information about C.P.E. Bach's life and works. Our main aim is to make his music and biography better known. What's the website's address? www.cpebach.de It's well worth visiting. It's in English, too, and you can find out plenty about the composer. Mr Wollny, every year the Leipzig Bachfest has a motto. This year it's 'The True Art'. I assume that the motto had already been chosen when Dr Steinhilber began planning the network last year. Did you have any alternative themes in mind? No, we'd already earmarked 2014 for C.P.E. Bach sometime beforehand. The Bachfest themes are planned a few years in advance. I'm not sure whether this year's motto had been decided, but the theme for 2014 had been chosen. The motto 'The True Art' alludes to a treatise by C.P.E. Bach. Can you tell us more about it? 1753, C.P.E. Bach published 'An Essay on the True Art of Playing Keyboard Instruments' followed by a second part a few years later. More than just a clavier tutor, it also dealt with improvisation and composition. It's one of the most important manuscripts on 18th-century performance practice and was published in several editions in C.P.E. Bach's lifetime. It sold very well and was probably known to everyone who played the clavier in central and north Germany. Since the motto of this year's Bachfest is 'The True Art', will it focus on aspects of performance practice? Or is the aim to shed light on C.P.E. Bach? We're always interested in performance practice. However, that's really the musicians' business - we don't tell them how to play. We want to highlight a composer who was very prolific, who worked in many different fields, and who wrote significant compositions in several genres. Can you give us some more details? What will we learn about C.P.E. Bach from the performances? What do we know about C.P.E. Bach? And does his music reveal anything about his character? The mid-18th century is known as the age of the 'Sensitive Style'. Every composer tried to reflect their own feelings in their music. This contrasts with the previous generation, which was far more reticent, including verbally. Listen carefully to C.P.E. Bach's music, and you'll learn much about his human side. He wrote many autobiographical pieces. I'll start in reverse order with his Fantasia in F sharp minor. He wrote two versions: one for solo keyboard instrument, and the other for violin accompanied by a keyboard instrument fortepiano or harpsichord. The title was 'C.P.E. Bach's feelings.' In his mid-seventies, he was clearly ill judging by his shaky handwriting. The Fantasia in F sharp minor is one of his greatest compositions. We know from other documents that certain other composition also relate to his life. His Rondo in A minor is said to have been composed in response to the death of his youngest son. And there are other examples. Are there perceptible differences between the music he wrote as an elderly man compared to when he was younger? I think so, but let me explain this in more detail. C.P.E. Bach is the leading representative of a period which is somewhat neglected. The terminology says it all. It's referred to as pre-classical, which sounds like an incomplete form of classical music. Sometimes we speak of late Baroque. J.S. Bach and Handel belong to High Baroque, but late-Baroque sounds like a degenerate phase! These terms don't do the music justice. They ignore the distinctiveness of the music composed by the generation of J.S. Bach's sons. C.P.E. Bach's generation believed that they had overcome an older, incomplete type of music and taken a step towards the culmination of music in the late 18th century. It's apparent from C.P.E. Bach's early works that he was of course influenced by his father's music. But when he was 18 or 19, he tried to find his own sound. Johann Nikolaus Forkel, J.S. Bach's first biographer, knew Bach's two eldest sons personally. And they told him that they realized they would never meet their father's high standards. Therefore they had to develop their own style early on. And I think we'll clearly see in some of C.P.E. Bach's early pieces performed at the Bachfest a composer who isn't sure which direction to take but is aware that he wants to distance himself from his father's music. In the 1730s and 1740s, C.P.E. Bach and his contemporaries tried to refine the older style. They tried to avoid clichés and to enrich everything with meaning and expression. Ultimately, every bar and every note was supposed to have its own feeling. This aim led to the need to inform the next generation of musicians how their music was to be performed. Every single note was supposed to have its own meaning and express its own delicate nuance. The publication of the piano tutor was therefore partly intended to capture the high level of performance achieved by Bach's sons in the performance of older and contemporary music and to preserve it for posterity. C.P.E. Bach also expressed in his treatise his dissatisfaction regarding the standard of playing keyboard instruments in his day. He wrote that most players needed to undergo exact training. What exactly did he have in mind? He had a very intellectual approach to playing the clavier. He described what can be done on it. He gave very precise instructions about the position of the hands and fingers. And he also described what was in bad taste and shouldn't be done! It has a steep learning curve. The exercises he published - the practice pieces - were very difficult right from the start. In later editions, the publisher asked Bach to supply easier pieces. He acquiesced because there were several other piano tutors on the market with easier exercises which were set to become more popular than Bach's. A year before C.P.E. Bach's treatise, a flute tutor with almost the same title was published by Johann Joachim Quantz. They both played in Frederick II's orchestra in Berlin. Was Bach inspired by Quantz - or were these two tutors written separately? We don't know exactly. There seems to have been something in the air in Berlin in around 1750. The young musicians in Frederick II's orchestra had played together for 10 years and become one of the best ensembles in Europe. They wanted to publicize what they saw as this pioneering 'True Art'. Bach and Quantz saw each other every day and probably talked about what they were doing. There must have been something in the air in Europe. Leopold Mozart published a treatise for the violin in 1756. And there were others, too. Musicians and singers felt the need to document the level they'd reached. C.P.E. Bach wrote much about performance practice. What do we know about the conditions in which he performed music written by himself and his contemporaries? As I said, Frederick II's orchestra was excellent, as was the chamber group to which Bach belonged and which performed with the king every day. I think his chamber music, his chamber symphonies from his time in Berlin were performed by top musicians. When in Hamburg, he may have had to make concessions regarding regular church music because the ensemble was relatively small and perhaps not of the same standard. But his great works, his oratorios, will have been performed by excellent professional musicians. But wasn't he sometimes frustrated by the conditions in Hamburg? Perhaps Mr Steinhilber knows more about this! The Hamburg newspapers from the late 18th century frequently contained rave reviews. There must have been outstanding performances of his oratorios. But there was also criticism of things that went wrong. Perhaps it was like today: the Gewandhaus Orchestra is sometimes praised and sometimes criticized, and that's what I imagine things were like in Hamburg, too. That's a fair comment. Telemann, his godfather, had a similar situation. At times he was euphoric about performances in Hamburg, at other times dejected. 1761, a few years before C.P.E. Bach arrived, the 'Auf dem Kamp' concert hall was opened in Hamburg. It was very important as it was the first public concert hall in Hamburg. C.P.E. Bach held his Monday recitals there, enabling the general public to hear his music. This may have been a result of his situation in Berlin. Frederick II's interest in his orchestra had waned. His musicians increasingly played in middle-class salons such as Sara Levi's. And this was an approach which he took with him to Hamburg. At this point we can note the parallels between C.P.E. Bach and his father, J.S. Bach. C.P.E. Bach's position in Hamburg wasn't dissimilar from that of his father in Leipzig. How did they cope? They must have been quite pragmatic about having so many official duties and nevertheless having to compose music which met their own high standards. Their responsibilities were indeed similar. The main difference was that J.S. Bach in Leipzig in 1723 - and Telemann in Hamburg in 1720 - encountered a very antiquated type of music which could not be continued. Something new was required, which is why they and other directors of music began writing a new cantata for each Sunday as well as passions and oratorios. The demands on J.S. Bach during his first five years in Leipzig were very arduous. And it won't have been any different for Telemann. But by the time Bach's sons entered similar posts, a large repertoire of good modern church music was in place which could be reused. C.P.E. Bach certainly did so. During his first few years in Hamburg he performed cantatas by his former colleague Georg Bender and Telemann. As he acclimatized, he began composing his own music. The extreme workload composers had in the 1720s wasn't the case 50 years later - they wouldn't have put up with it anymore! In many cases C.P.E. Bach used the pasticcio technique. These days this would present copyright problems! But he combined music written by his father and other composers with his own work. Regarding C.P.E. Bach's vocal and church music in Hamburg, his 'quarterly compositions' written for Christmas, Easter, Whitsun and Michaelmas can be identified. He made sure he presented especially outstanding music of his own for these occasions. So you're saying that he operated pragmatically by writing original music for the main church festivals. Definitely. A composer like C.P.E. Bach would have believed that his own compositions were very good but would have been unwilling to compose on an assembly line. He knew that his compositions stood for themselves, but was willing to fill the rest of the repertoire with other people's works. It's quite clear that he usually provided his own compositions for the main ecclesiastical festivals. There will be a concert at the Bachfest featuring his quarterly compositions. As I said, on the other Sundays he will have performed music by other composers. Would it be correct to say that his period in Hamburg was a time of taking stock stock and completing his compositional work? His Leipzig period could be classified as a time of learning and experimentation, and developing his instrumental skills. But how should we characterize his Berlin period in between? In my opinion, in his Berlin period he perfected his own compositional language. In around 1740, he became the C.P.E. Bach we recognize. In his early compositions, he was still searching for his own form of expression. But I don't think it would be fair to describe his Hamburg time by saying that he was just collating his works. In his Hamburg years, as a church composer he employed a substantial degree of pragmatism in order to have enough time to work as an instrumental composer. His six anthologies of 'Clavier Sonatas for Connoisseurs and Amateurs' are perhaps his main Hamburg compositions. We can see that he made progress from one anthology to the next. And he was obviously keen to leave an important body of work for posterity. That's interesting, because his works weren't important for posterity for very long. During his lifetime, C.P.E. Bach was far more famous than his father. But in the 19th century, the situation was reversed. J.S. Bach was rediscovered and C.P.E. Bach's reception was cut short. How could this happen? In 1806, Christian Daniel Friedrich Schubert praised him greatly in his 'Aesthetics of Music'. But the next prominent mention of C.P.E. Bach only occurred in 1866 when Brahms published two of his violin sonatas. People often fail to appreciate the musical accomplishments of their parents' generation. And C.P.E. Bach's music wasn't necessarily compatible with Romanticism. Did C.P.E. Bach come to be appreciated more in around the mid-19th century in connection with Brahms? Yes, but not substantially so. As you said, some of his works were published by Brahms and others. But attention was only really paid to C.P.E. Bach again in the 20th century for example in the 1930s in the thesis by Ernst Fritz Schmied about C.P.E. Bach's chamber music and perhaps a few years beforehand. We also know that the first efforts took place at this time time to collate his works and publish his foremost compositions. Progress on his complete works was delayed until the late 1990 by external factors such as the Second World War. To what extent has his music been preserved? You mentioned the complete edition, which still hasn't been concluded. Where do researchers find their material? Have only some of his works come down to us? We've been very lucky. His oeuvre is huge. His complete edition will comprise well over 100 volumes. The only compositions missing are a sonata for violin and flute and a cello sonata. Otherwise, it will contain all the works he approved of. I don't count the music written in his youth. In the 1780s he wrote in a letter that he had recently burned his early works and was pleased that they no longer existed. But all the compositions he believed represented his work have been preserved. And that's quite amazing. Just think of other composers like J.S. Bach, many of whose cantatas and passions have been lost. The situation with C.P.E. Bach is ideal. Why is that exactly? Did he make sure that his compositions were indexed? After all, he published many of them himself. He did indeed publish a great deal himself. And after his death, when his musical estate was put up for sale, there were many collectors of music who were interested. And they bought all of his music at the large auction in 1805. Much of it was acquired by Georg Poelchau, a well-known collector from Hamburg, and is now in the Berlin State Library. Another portion is at Sing-Akademie in Berlin. It was thought to have disappeared after the Second World War but fortunately reappeared in the 1990s. As a result, his oeuvre has almost survived in its entirety. Mr Steinhilber, when you began planning the network, did you have any idea of the breadth of C.P.E. Bach's works and the different ways in which they could be performed? Or did this only emerge gradually? Of course it's a stroke of luck that his body of work is so large and encompasses many different genres. This enables all sorts of performances from large oratorio concerts to lieder recitals. I'm delighted that this variety will largely be reflected. His 300th anniversary will be on 8 March. Can you tell us what we can look forward to on this day in the various cities? Celebrations will be held simultaneously, making it difficult for people to choose! All in all, over 200 different events will be staged throughout the network. The majority are musical events. In fact with so many it's easy to lose track. Of course, much will be done around 8 March with events in all the network cities, including a birthday party in Weimar and a special concert at St Thomas's Church in Leipzig featuring St Thomas's Boys Choir. Frankfurt/Oder will celebrate a Bach Day with guided tours, an exhibition and concerts. In Berlin, there will be a concert by the C.P.E. Bach Chamber Orchestra conducted by Hartmut Haenchen. Potsdam will host a ceremony and a display of autograph manuscripts. And in Hamburg, a concert with choir and orchestra will be held at St Michael's Church where Bach is buried in the crypt. The 'Long Night of C.P.E. Bach' will be held at St. James' Church, which was also in his remit as Hamburg's director of music. Hopefully no one will have to ask who 'E.B.' was! I'd like to add that here in Leipzig a large academic conference organized by the Bach Archive will be held in Leipzig around C.P.E. Bach's birthday. It will be open to the public and anyone interested in finding out more about him is welcome to attend. It will focus on his life, his works and contemporary aspects. I think it will be very interesting, including regarding our views of music in the mid-18th century. Parallel to this, in the museum here we will be opening a large special exhibition on C.P.E. Bach including many pictures, autographs and other exhibits recording his life. It will be a treat for the eyes, ears and mind! It's very important for us in this network that we can not only listen to C.P.E. Bach's music but also find out more about this relatively unknown composer. Symposia will be held on the modernity of C.P.E. Bach in Weimar and his position within the Bach family. The relationship between C.P.E. Bach and the rest of his family is an eternal question. What was it like being in this dynasty of composers? These questions will be discussed. And there will be exhibitions around his birthday in almost all the other cities. We are delighted to be able to shed more light on him and find out more about his life. There remains the question as to the long-term impact of this jubilee year. A jubilee is always an opportunity to draw attention to unanswered questions, to hear unknown music. What do you hope will remain in our minds? I hope I won't receive any more emails asking who Emanuel Bach was! And I hope that his reputation will grow among non-specialists and that he will be presented more vividly than is sometimes the case. Speaking as a musicologist, I can talk about C.P.E. Bach with my colleagues. As researchers we've been studying him for some time. But there's still much to find out. Here we have a realistic opportunity to include a previously neglected composer in the standard repertoire. Conferences are often held about unknown composers at which a few pieces are performed, only to be forgotten again a few years later. Here we have a chance to add a very important voice to the classical repertoire. And the Leipzig Bachfest will be contributing to this with orchestral music and concertos for keyboard instruments by C.P.E. Bach as well as songs, chamber music and major vocal compositions. This overview will enable us to understand the composer better. I hope you enjoy listening to his music as well as all the events over the coming year. The next debate in this series will be held on 9 March. Thank you very much for your interest.