Should I Buy A Subaru BRZ or a BMW E46? - /ROAD TESTAMENT

[CAR ENGINE] MIKE SPINELLI: The Subaru BRZ and Scion FRS are among the most hyped new cars in the history of car making, even being hailed as the saviors of automotive enthusiasm, they're tight-handling, rear drive, and a price human beings can afford. But should you buy one just because, or are there better choices in the used market that would make you even happier. That's what we're talking about today. You told us, we're going to tell you right back. Ian Whelan's here-- Mr. Saab-- that's today on "Road Testament." [MUSIC PLAYING] MIKE SPINELLI: @drive on Twitter, Facebook.com/drivetv, and apparently, flannelinthehouse.org. IAN WHELAN: I don't know what happened here. MIKE SPINELLI: Wardrobe malfunction today on "Road Testament." The Subaru BRZ, and obviously Scion FRS-- they're both, to us, the BRZ, and that's how we're going to refer to them. A Twitter user inspired us to do this topic that we're going to be talking about today. And basically, his dilemma was, do I buy a new BRZ, or do I buy a used BMW E46? And it made us think well, the BRZ is the second coming of the rear drive sports car, right? And it's around $26,000. But do you spend that money and get a better used car, if you're an enthusiast? That's something we are now calling #BRZorThat. IAN WHELAN: Hashtag. MIKE SPINELLI: Hashtag, right. It's pretty simple-- do you buy a BRZ, or do you buy something else? And actually, we have to thank Saudi_Boy. Thank you, Saudi_Boy. That was his dilemma. So Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS, around $26,000, rear drive two-liter naturally aspirated, 100 horsepower per liter, 200 horsepower, 151 pounds-feet. Not gigantic numbers, but you look at that number, it's 2,800 pounds, lightweight, great car to throw around. IAN WHELAN: Compared to most cars of today. MIKE SPINELLI: So we asked you guys whether you would buy a new BRZ, or something else, and what that would be. So let's go through a couple of those, because basically, this show is all about you guys. I'd buy a manual E46 M3 over a BRZ, a BRZ over a regular E46. IAN WHELAN: There's one E46 besides the M3 that might be worth thinking about-- it's the ZHP E46. MIKE SPINELLI: Right, I don't know how many there are out there, probably harder to find. IAN WHELAN: It's probably harder to find than an M3. MIKE SPINELLI: But what is that? IAN WHELAN: It's just a special option package that they had. And it was just a special interior, a hotter cam, higher red line, better suspension. It was kind of like the SI version of the 330, but they didn't call it that. MIKE SPINELLI: But there are actually more E46's, if you just do a standard search. And the E46 is around $25,000 now. Ctmeche says a used S2000, that's a Honda S2000, I will be talking about that. That's was one of your picks. You can get a four-year-old 135i for the same money. I love the FRS, I'd go for the 135i, says GarthMercer. The 135i is not my favorite, but I like it. It's a great engine, a little soft in the-- IAN WHELAN: I can see the value there. MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, value-wise. "BRZ. BMW has lost their appeal, and have lost their clients to Audi. Their lineup has become bloated and meaningless." ranilpatel, a continual jab at BMW. IAN WHELAN: That might be true, but I think we're talking about slightly older BMW's for the money. MIKE SPINELLI: Right. And let's just be clear, that the BRZ and the E46 are very different cars. But it's that enthusiast's head-- do I buy the new lightweight sports car, or do I buy the higher-end, more super- sports car that's just depreciated a lot. "I like the Toyoburu, but the E46 M3 is definitely a better value." Sarge_Dylan says that. The other thing is how much money you want to spend on maintenance-- we'll talk about that a little bit. The Z4 3.0-- it's just funny how many BMW's that people have matched up against the BRZ, because it's depreciation-- IAN WHELAN: There's also not that many other choices in rear-wheel drive manual transmission sporty cars. MIKE SPINELLI: Well, there are a few. Yeah, it's true. That's the go-to. BMW's always been the go-to. "Loved how they drive despite lack of torque." That's a traditional knock on the current BRZ. I mean of course, we're all waiting for what's going to come up next, whether it's a turbo. They keep saying there isn't any, but obviously there will be. "Bought an 8,000 mile used Golf R instead." That's another thing. "Already made my decision (as you can see in my avatar)." And if you check out, touge_n00b is a proud BRZ owner. Another, E36 BMW is actually cheaper. You could put an extra $10,000 in your pocket for maintenance. That's not a bad idea. Late '90s Porsche 911. I don't think you can get a 993 for that. IAN WHELAN: No, but you could probably get a 964. MIKE SPINELLI: Which is something that you picked, and we're going to be talking about that, too. Of course, Jack_Gray, who always thinks outside the box-- "'66 Chevy 2 in good condition." The muscle car of choice. And RamiTouma articulates exactly what we were talking about. "Think most of us are waiting to see a higher performing model come out. Hoping we get details in 2013, can't wait forever!" Subaru, Toyota. IAN WHELAN: They'll also be more expensive. MIKE SPINELLI: Well, yes, and then we're talking about $30,000. IAN WHELAN: And then we could do this show all over again. MIKE SPINELLI: We're going to do it all over again anyway. Anyway, so these are our picks, and we're going to just burn through these so you guys can get on with leaving comments on what you think that you would do. Because this show is actually about the comments. So it doesn't matter what we say. You could actually just turn this off right now and go straight to the comments. But of course, you want to hear what Mr. Saab has to say. IAN WHELAN: Well, I like other cars besides Saabs. I would like to actually own a 911 at some point. I think the 964 is a nice car, and you could get one now for mid-20s. MIKE SPINELLI: Especially a Targa. IAN WHELAN: Especially a Targa. So that's something to think about, right? MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, it's something to think about. Again, it's just a maintenance issue. IAN WHELAN: Right, this is going to be a lot more difficult to maintain-- or more expensive to maintain-- than a BRZ. MIKE SPINELLI: The benefits of the BRZ are obviously that it's a new car, with a warranty. They've done some things to make it trackable, where they've actually made it ready to take a cage in. If you look behind the dash, you can almost see the mounting points for a roll cage. And in the back, they've actually designed the rear hatch so you could fit four tires, and a helmet. IAN WHELAN: That's great. MIKE SPINELLI: So it's made to be tracked. Obviously, if you buy a 964, it's not a car that you're going to be able to track without a little bit of investment in it. IAN WHELAN: Yeah. It doesn't come out of the box that way. MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly. But enthusiast's choice. This is another one of your picks, but it's a great pick, and it's also one that-- IAN WHELAN: I still really like the S2000, and I think that this car is-- it's a lightweight Japanese sports car, just like the BRZ, except the roof comes off. The thing about this car is that you can still find them with relatively low mileage, because they were usually not bought as first cars, for most people. It's a pretty bulletproof car, so if you're worried about getting something like a 911 that's maybe a little older, maybe more expensive, this is probably a little closer to what the BRZ experience would be like, as far as maintenance and upkeep. MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, and it does fall into the category of buying a higher-end car at depreciated prices, rather than buying a BRZ, which actually is a little bit more of an economy car. IAN WHELAN: Right. This was a more expensive car when it was new. I think it was about $30,000. MIKE SPINELLI: $32,000, eventually up to almost $40,000. IAN WHELAN: It had a lot of high-tech stuff for the time that was derived from the NSX program. MIKE SPINELLI: This is actually when Honda was on its game with have this kind of stuff. So you're right, it's trickle down from the NSX, and Honda just doesn't have anything right now that has this kind of mojo to it. Especially, we'll see how the BRZ does. They're going to have to respond with something soon. What's next? Ah! SW20 Toyota MR2-- older-- it's 20 years, plus, now. IAN WHELAN: You're going to have to spend a little money to find one that hasn't been overly tuned, and beat up. But there are nice ones out there. MIKE SPINELLI: There are nice ones out there. I saw one for about $20,000, which is a lot, but it's the Turbo. It was in fantastic condition. Somebody had kept it. It feels weird paying $20,000 for an 18-to-20-year-old car, but this generation MR2, like the S2000, is also a little bit upscale. Because this is when the MR2 went upscale. It handles great, and when it first came out, the journalists were complaining that it had a lot of snap oversteer. IAN WHELAN: It's going to inspire you to become a better driver. MIKE SPINELLI: Inspired to become a better driver, but they called it Bambi on Ice for a while. IAN WHELAN: Sounds like fun. MIKE SPINELLI: What happened was, Toyota came up with a suspension geometry fix. They gave it a little more understeer. So they dialed out some of that stuff. But the original cars are actually fairly edgy, and that was what people who really love the SW20s really love about them-- is that they're edgy. Of course, they're great interior. So if you can find an early car that's in great condition-- IAN WHELAN: And it's [INAUDIBLE] engine. MIKE SPINELLI: By the way, we wanted to put this in-- this is Leo Parente's pick. This was his company car. So I had to put that in there. Next, obviously I put this in. IAN WHELAN: It's a great car. MIKE SPINELLI: The Lotus Elise, they're down in the mid-20s. IAN WHELAN: You might have to hunt a little bit for that. MIKE SPINELLI: You have to hunt a little bit for that. Because right after the crash-- the economic crash, not the backwards off the road-- they were going for 20, right? They had dropped all the way to 20. I saw a couple in the 19's. Now they've gone back up. That's because you're not going to be able to get this car anymore. IAN WHELAN: Keep in mind, this also has the Japanese reliable engine. MIKE SPINELLI: It's got the Japanese reliable engine. Speaking of the MR2, it's got the next generation MR2 and Toyota Celica-derived 1.8 liter. What do you got? Actually, it's another 200 horsepower car, like the BRZ. It's in the 200 horsepower range. IAN WHELAN: It's a little less than 200. MIKE SPINELLI: It's 189, 190, right? Also low-ish torque. The torque is only 130 on it, right? Something like that. Super-light, right? So power-to-weight is great. What is it, 2,200, 2,300 pounds? The BRZ is 28. So power to weight is probably in this car's favor. IAN WHELAN: And it's a Lotus. MIKE SPINELLI: And it's a Lotus. IAN WHELAN: If you drive around in that car, you're going to turn a lot more heads than the BRZ, so there's that aspect. MIKE SPINELLI: Right. You do have shock and awe aspect. Again, though, other than the engine, which is really a piece of cake to maintain, don't ever hit a parking nub with that thing, because you basically have to replace this. It's super-expensive. Any body stuff is super-expensive. So that might be a good way to get a cheap one, because I've seen Elises with body damage that you can get for $15,000 that are mechanically perfect. But obviously, you want the aero intact, so that's an issue. Anyway, this is the E46 that Saudi_Boy was planning-- and I think he actually chose the E46 instead of the BRZ. I don't know if he bought it yet, but we'll find out. #BRZorThat. E46, just one last thing. It's a freaking fantastic car, probably one of the best $20,000 cars now-- $25,000, I guess you'd have to pay for a really good one. IAN WHELAN: Yeah. I think it's a really awesome car. And it still has some of those classic looks of BMW. MIKE SPINELLI: Exactly. #BRZorThat, what do you think? Put it in the comments. Put it in Twitter. Put it wherever you want it. I don't care. Facebook.com/drivetv. That's it. Ian Whelan. IAN WHELAN: Mike Spinelli. MIKE SPINELLI: Short "Road Testament" today. Right to the point. IAN WHELAN: I like it. MIKE SPINELLI: Yeah, that's right. we will see you guys next week. All right, later. [MUSIC PLAYING]