Panel Discussion: Teens with Learning Differences

[APPLAUSE] BRIAN THOMAS: Really grateful for Debbie for offering us this platform in some ways, but also just to have the opportunity for kids to talk about themselves and about what we do. Just a little background-- in 2006, 2007, we started as a group. And we were launched in someone's house, one of our board member's house on Clipper Street in San Francisco. And it was basically in her kitchen and living room for a number of years. And we've now moved to the San Francisco Friends School. But it starts usually at the beginning of the school year. And it's once a month. And these kids have-- many of them have been coming over and over and over again during that time. And just a little bit of a background from there, that very first meeting, there were maybe about 15 kids in a room. And Jonathan Mooney, who is a LD advocate extraordinaire, went to Brown, has an incredible story of not just overcoming, but using his strengths, and as someone who probably reads at a third or fourth grade level right now. So he talks a lot about that. But he turned to the kids, and said so what do you want to do? And there was a little bit of a hubbub in the room. And they said we want to speak on panels. We want to make a film. And we want to write a book. And at the end, he turned to the woman whose house it was, Julie Tran, and myself, and said mm, I don't think that's going to happen. Not that he was doubtful, but it was a lot to bite off. And these kids have over time and time again shown great resilience, great fortitude, and they're very, very ambitious. So I'm going to turn it over to-- we're going to start all the way down at the end. I want you to introduce yourselves. Tell us what grade you are in, what school you go to. Tell us a little bit about when you were first diagnosed with your LD. TAMARA: Hi, I'm Tamara. And I'm a senior at the Bay School, which is in San Francisco. I was first diagnosed in seventh grade. And it actually wasn't really that revolutionary, I guess, when I was diagnosed, because I didn't really understand what learning differences were at the time. And I didn't really understand until around ninth grade. So maybe I'll talk about that later. Yeah, thank you. FRANKIE: Hi, I'm Frankie. I am a junior at Gateway High School in San Francisco. I was diagnosed in first grade. That was a long time ago. I don't really remember. But what my mom has told me is that when I was first diagnosed, I went around walking down the street telling everyone I was dyslexic. And I didn't know what that meant. I just thought was a good thing. But other than that, I don't really remember. SEAN: I'm Sean. I go to Riordan High School in the city. I was diagnosed in third grade, but it wasn't really that big a deal because learning disabilities were like diseases so, yeah. ANNIE: I'm Annie. I go to school in Marin County. I technically go to three schools right now. I have four independent study classes, a class at Redwood High School, and a class at College of Marin. I have dyslexia and something called Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome, which is kind of a reading disability. It's basically like-- you know the salt and pepper on a TV when the cable box is unplugged. It's kind of like that, only everywhere. And so on pages, it makes it a little hard to read. I was identified in the end of sixth grade. And prior to that, I really thought I was stupid, thought I was going nowhere. I was failing classes. I could not read. I didn't know my math facts, couldn't spell. And school was my least favorite thing in the world. And so when I was identified, it was definitely a relief to know the cause to all of my school struggles. But it was also a little bit scary because I thought dyslexia just meant oh, you're kind of not as good as everyone else. But it turns out that wasn't right. MIA: Hi, I'm Mia. I'm a freshman year at Redwood High School, and I have ADHD and dyslexia. And when I was first diagnosed in the end of fourth grade, beginning of fifth grade, it was kind of a relief because I always had a lot of trouble with spelling and math facts. And I could not memorize anything. But I also thought it was kind of this really cool special club, because like my sister Annie, she had gotten diagnosed, and I figured anything that Annie had, that was awesome, so-- dyslexia, oh my gosh, that's so cool. FIONA: Hi, I'm Fiona. I have quite a few learning disabilities, ADHD, dysgraphia probably, and sensory integration disorder and some processing disorders with my memory and stuff. Oh, and I'm a senior at the Bay School with Tamara. Hi, Tamara. TAMARA: Hi, Fiona. FIONA: And I was diagnosed, I think, when I was in fourth grade? Is that right, mom? She nodded. So that means that I'm good. I mean, I was in fourth grade at the time, so I don't really remember it. But I do remember it really kind of changing when I went to sixth grade, and then I started taking ADHD medication, and that really helped. But I've really gotten improved with my learning in terms of my learning disability by going to SAFE. BRIAN THOMAS: I want everybody to answer this one as well. Talk a little bit about school challenges, sort of when you first noticed-- if you did, because maybe some of you have not-- but when you first noticed through your learning difference, learning disability, how school was challenged for you. TAMARA: So I think for me the main thing is just taking a lot longer to do work than other people. And I notice that already in-- I guess when I was in middle school, because we always had classwork to do. And I always had to finish during lunch or finish after school. So that was kind of frustrating. Another thing is that I have a hard time memorizing math formulas. So even though I would say it to myself again and again or write it out again and again, it just wouldn't stick. I think those are the two main things. FRANKIE: Well, I was first diagnosed in first grade, so I don't really remember, but what I do remember from that time it is I remember I couldn't really read in first grade. So people, even my parents, and I think even my nanny, came to school to help me read, because I couldn't do it. So someone had to sit next to me and help me read. Also, people would take me out of class and do these certain exercises, things like that. And I didn't really know why. I just thought-- I was like oh, time out of class. That's OK with me. Anything to get out of class. And then I started taking ADHD medication when I was in maybe second grade, maybe first. And I've been taking it ever since then. So I do definitely notice when I haven't taken my medication and when I have taken it, because I just-- I'm a lot more-- when I do take my medication, I'm a lot calmer, and I can concentrate. But if I don't, I'm off the walls. And I don't even usually recognize myself, because I'm just so used to myself on this medication. And then also I start to notice when I started to get into higher and higher levels of math, I started having more and more problems. Math is probably my worst subject. I get OK grades, but I have test anxiety, especially in math. So when I'm at a test, and I look at the test, I forget everything. Or that's not always usually the case, but sometimes, I will forget everything and will completely fail a test. SEAN: My learning disability is where the most trouble would come for me was basically in grammar school. I have a hard time remembering. And the difference for me is that I didn't really get any help from teachers. The playing field wasn't leveled. So I had to basically do the subjects like everyone else had to, but they were like at a different level, so it was difficult for me. ANNIE: Let's see. Well, I first remember struggling in first grade, where I would just sit in the corner with a book, looking at the pictures, scared, on the verge of crying, because I just couldn't understand the words. I used to pretend I was sick to the point where my mom took me to get blood tests because she thought something was medically seriously wrong with me. And school was just-- it was horrible. It was probably one of the worst experiences I've had was having to go to school without knowing that I was dyslexic and without knowing that there were strategies to help with it. MIA: My main struggles have definitely been through spelling and math. I remember in second grade, Antarctica was the bane of my existence. I remember in first grade, we had this game where everybody would start on the line at the edge of the classroom, and then they would ask you an addition fact. And you would hop forward if you got it right. And I just remember being stuck back at the starting line. And it was just horrible. I did not understand what was going on. And it was the same thing when we started multiplication in third grade. I wasn't able to figure out multiplication until around fifth or sixth grade. And I'm still not good at it at all. And I still can't spell at all, although with spell check, it's helped out. But I remember, in sixth grade, we had a lot of spelling tests. And our teacher would go around and you would get-- she would draw you a special picture if you got 100%. And I remember being the only person in the class who had never gotten that. And she thought it was funny. She'd be like oh, you're so bad at spelling. I'll have to throw you out the window. But that was not very funny from my perspective. FIONA: Well, I kind of had a similar experience. Spelling is basically a lost cause with me. And math facts are just-- no, don't even try. But I really didn't-- I don't remember really hating school that much when I was younger or even when I-- I mean, I just really didn't like the people at my school. Because I was really weird. I mean, we kind of already knew that there was something not quite right. I couldn't not hit people and stuff. So there was something wrong, but we didn't know exactly what it was. But I don't know why, it just didn't-- I mean, I just was happy. I didn't feel like I had a terribly negative experience. But yes. Done. BRIAN THOMAS: I want to stay on the social-emotional thing, because a lot of kids will say that if you're not feeling all that safe socially, emotionally, in school, that it's really hard to learn. And your friends and the social group around will give you that confidence of being able to work through some of the challenges in the school. But tell us a little bit about how your friends perceived that, especially if they weren't as accepting or didn't quite understand what you were going through. Could you tell us just maybe some time in your educational life maybe, in the classroom or right out of the classroom, where kids maybe were less than kind and what did that look like? TAMARA: Well, I don't really have a specific anecdote about a friend. But I do really know that the social circle and how they perceive you as someone with a learning difference is really important, because in middle school, it was kind of like if you didn't finish everything kind of right on the dot, that you were not as good. And so I have that kind of thing going on with me. But then when I was in high school, my first year, things started to change a little bit, because people at my school were really accepting of learning differences. Actually, a third of them have learning differences. And they all would just say it. It wasn't a big deal. No one stared at you. In fact, in my first year at my high school, I was working with two friends on math. And they were saying that they were dyslexic. And I was kind of surprised that they would just say that right away, because I didn't even know them that well. And I wanted to say it too, but I kind of still have this thing about-- oh, maybe I shouldn't reveal it because it shows something that's not so great. But I realized that over time, just saying it is really empowering, just like-- if I want to say that I have a learning difference to someone, then I want to say it. And it feels great. I know that other people will feel more comfortable when they hear someone else say it. So it just kind of builds this community of people that really are accepting, that they're proud of it, and it's really contagious. FRANKIE: So I remember probably the time I was probably the most criticized for my learning disabilities was probably in first grade. Although I don't really remember, I was probably most definitely really thought as just the really weird kid, because in first grade, my teacher didn't know how to teach me at all. Her solution for not having to worry about me was putting me in the back of the room with a box of LEGOs. And everyone else would be doing a class activity. And I couldn't do that. So she thought OK, I'm just going to put Frankie in the back of the room. And I'd be by myself in my own world. And I thought it was great, because I was playing with LEGOs. What kid wouldn't want to play with LEGOs in school? And then in second grade, I went to a school called Charles Armstrong. And that's a school for kids with learning disabilities in Belmont, just north of here. And so every kid was dyslexic. So every kid, almost everything kid, was the same. So during that time, I wasn't really-- everything about dyslexia was normal. So there wasn't really anything about that that was weird. Then I got into high school. And that was the first time I actually went back into the public school system. So I was very nervous about that. And after I joined SAFE, I started realizing that advocating for myself and being open is very important. So I'm very open about my learning disabilities when it comes to school. And I'll tell that person OK, I have this learning difference. It's going to take me longer in order to do this. So you may need to help me, and you may need to be patient, because I'm not going to do it as fast as you. And I'll tell that person that. And a lot of my friends are very helpful. They'll help me. They'll sit down with me. They'll be patient. And 30% of my high school has a learning difference. So the people at my school are very supportive. SEAN: So I talked about my grammar school being like-- they didn't really-- no one really knew anything about learning disabilities. So that kind of hurt me in a way, because I really know of anyone that had learning disabilities. I thought it was just me. So I would kind of use-- honestly, I would use that as an excuse for not being able to do my work or I would say I can't succeed. I'm just going to blame it on learning disabilities. So it was basically not until high school when I realized that when I was put in a group-- it's called the Resource Specialist Program. There are like 100 people in that group. So it made me realize that I'm not only one that has these difficulties. Some people have a lot harder difficulties, and they're still getting through it, so I can, too. And then with the SAFE, it really taught me how to be an independent, not really be scared that I do have learning disabilities, being about to talk about them with people. ANNIE: Let's see. Well, I was lucky enough when I was diagnosed that one of my close friends at the time was also dyslexic. And so her and I and a few other girls in the class would just bring computers everywhere, and have really obvious accommodations, and it wasn't really an issue. But that was at a very small private school. And then I went to a 1,600-kid public school for high school. And I just remember my first day of English class. I was sitting there and the teacher wants us to write a paragraph. So I whip out my computer. I'd been doing that for like three years or so. And a girl-- she's like wait, what are you doing? Why do you have a computer? That doesn't make any sense. And I told her I was dyslexic. And in the middle of class, she stands up, going to the front of the room, and writes-- I forget what the word is-- but writes something backwards, and asks me to read it. And I was a little taken by surprise, and told her that no one with dyslexia reads backwards, and that that was a myth. And she just kind of shrugged, and she's like oh, well, that's really weird. Like what the eff. It was a little uncomfortable. MIA: When I was diagnosed, I didn't really have much of a problem with it at first, because my sister had it and everything. But I feel like nobody came up to me and said things like oh, so you read backwards, and oh, you're stupid because you have an LD. It was just kind of a little bit like the little side glance you get, like in math, when you go up to the board, and you do the problem wrong, because you say 2 plus 3 is 6 or something, that kind of mistake, just kind of look at you like, what are you doing? And so they don't exactly say it out loud, just like the little sideways glances occasionally. That can be a little bit stressful. FIONA: It's cruel. MIA: Well, over time, I got really comfortable with it. And I would tell anybody who listened, oh, I have dyslexia. Do you want to know what it is? I go to this thing called SAFE. It's so awesome. You should check it out. And then since that's a small 45-kid class school, and now I go to a giant public school with almost 500 kids in my grade. And I remember, it was Friday, I think. My friend comes up to me. What are you doing over the weekend? I'm like oh, well, I'm going to the CHADD conference. And she's like what's that? It's this ADD conference. She's like what's ADD? I'm like it's for kids with LDs. She's like what's an LD? And I try to explain it, and she just kind of looks at me like oh, I love mentally disabled people. Like she literally says that to me. And I just kind of look at her, and she looks back at me like what are you talking about? FIONA: Well, so I never really got made fun of specifically because of my learning disabilities. I just got made fun of because I was weird and-- yeah. But I mean, I kind of feel like it's not really about other people being mean to you. It's more about kind of you being mean to yourself sometimes. You think, like, oh, well, I mean, it doesn't really make any sense if you can't-- I mean, I can't do this thing and blah, blah, blah. I mean, I'm never going to get fixed. I feel like I didn't have that as much as a lot of people, but I do feel like it's a problem for pretty much anybody who has an LD, because the way that the world is structured is you just still have to like work to fit in and to have the system work for you. And that's hard. BRIAN THOMAS: And this is really pretty challenging, huh? Just to have to go through what kids go through just on a daily basis, but also to have the extra stress sometimes of knowing that you learn differently than at least 60% of the kids in the room, if statistics hold true. It may be even more. You are all playing with stuff, I see. People notice that. You all have little gadgets in your hand or little things in your hand, many of you. Tell me a little bit more about things that help you. Tell me a little bit about your accommodations and any sort of assisted technologies that you use. TAMARA: OK, so I mainly use audiobooks to read. I think I'm pretty much like the audiobook queen at my school, because every time I have a new novel, I always order the audiobook or get it from the library. And I started doing that only last year, and I don't really know why I didn't do that before, because it's honestly the best thing. You can hear other people. It's almost like watching a movie without the picture, so it's really cool. It helps me. Because I have a visual and auditory processing learning difference, so if I can read something and hear it at the same time, that helps me a lot. The other thing is that I use my computer a lot of the time. I do like paper and pencil. I guess I'm kind of old fashioned, but I usually use the computer most of the time, unless it's just kind of a free write, because it helps me work a lot faster. And it just makes writing more enjoyable. FRANKIE: So I just want to say that I love accommodations, greatest thing in the world. My accommodation's mostly for school, like math. In my math class, there's a person called a learning specialist in my classroom. Really cool guy, and what he does is he sits in the back of the room, and while the class is taking notes, he'll take the notes as well. And then he'll take them, copy them, and he'll give them to people who need it. And I'm one of those people get those notes. So that really helps me, because sometimes I can't read my own handwriting. And I also have a auditory processing disability, and my auditory memory is in the second percentile. So I only take in 2% of what I hear, let's say, in a lecture. So that's barely anything. So what I have to do is I have to look back on the notes in order to understand what I'm doing for homework. Because I can't process it just from a lecture. I'm allowed to use a computer when I'm doing like a timed essay, although I'm not a very good typer. I have time and a half, so let's say I have an hour to do a test. But then I'll have an extra 30 minutes, because I need that extra time, because I work a lot slower than an average student. I do use audiobooks. I actually just started this year as well. And it really helps. It's a lot better than myself just reading to me. Because if someone is reading it, like, let's say, in an audiobook like an actor's reading it, I get the picture so much better. And I enjoy the book so much more. Also, at home, I use a program called Dragon's Naturally Speaking. And that is a-- you have a headphone. You have a computer. And you talk into the headphone and it types out for you. I can do that whole entire essay just like that, And I can pace back and forth. And it's not very accurate, so it's not the best at accuracy, but so I can go back and fix it. But that definitely helps when I'm doing an essay at home. SEAN: My main accommodation is I get 100% extended timing. I have processing issues, so let's say the class gets 30 minutes, I'll get almost an hour, so that really helps because it kind of is a little bit of a problem, because like you're just kind of in there taking a test with no one else in there, even though it's kind of cool, it just takes a lot of brain power to be able to focus that long. Another thing that I get is I get to type everything. I'm not really sure how it goes with my learning disability. I think that's just because of my handwriting. And then the last accommodation that I get is I have teachers-- I have one-on-one testing which is where when I'm taking a test, a teacher will read the questions for me, because a lot of times when I read the question, I'll have to read it like 10 times before I even get the gist of what the question's asking. So, yeah, having a teacher-- hearing it out, loud helps me. ANNIE: Well, I think the number one accommodation you can have is self-advocacy. And that's a giant topic that we stress at SAFE, basically just being able to understand your disability and tell your teachers about it and know what you need and be able to express that. I know for me, every year I send an email to my teacher. Or first I go to my teacher, and I talk to them. And I introduce myself and let them know about my dyslexia and how it affects me and the accommodations I have. And then I'll follow up with that and sending an email, just so they know to kind of reinforce it, a little friendly reminder. And then as far as assistive technology goes, I use a computer program called Inspiration. And it's a way of creating an outline, but it's very visual. Instead of Roman numerals and numbers, it's little bubbles and pictures. And you make little webs, and like I said, you can put pictures or different text boxes and titles and colors. And then if you need to turn in the outline, it actually turns it into a formal outline for you, if you just click a button. I cannot write essays without it. And then in my legal accommodations list, I have gum and the use of a fidget toy. Because I don't actually have ADD, but I really do need to be doing something to focus, something little like moving my hand or playing with a pen. And then as far as audiobooks goes, there's a organization called RFB&D, which is Reading for the Blind and Dyslexic. And if you have a formal diagnosed disability, they will provide you with free audiobooks for almost any book. MIA: I, like Annie, have a legal documentation of using gum and fidget toys. I actually just have buckets and buckets of them in my room. I go to the dollar store and buy out everything they have, like these and Silly Putty. And I'll buy my gum in bulk at Costco so I always have it. I also have time and a half, because although a lot of the times, I can finish tests faster than the majority of my classmates because my mind moves so fast. But also because it moves so fast, I skip things. I leave out lots of different symbols. So I need the extra time to just go over my work, so I can check over my test, especially with math. I have to go over it and check every problem, redo it about three times and use my little checkmark system on there. I also, just like Annie said, I advocate a lot. I have to go talk to my teachers very frequently. I use my computer sometimes. I also use Inspiration and things like that. And I also have preferential seating, which means I can talk to my teacher and say, hey, yeah, you assigned me to a seat in the back corner, but I can't see the board. So I will get moved up to the front, so that can pay attention and so that I can listen and learn. FIONA: I've no-- I should've thought this through. Well, I get time and a half, like pretty much everybody else. And I get a laptop accommodation, which is really not unusual for my school because they give us computers. So almost 100% of everything is done on the computer unless your teacher's really weird and makes you write out essays, in which case, you're like I have an accommodation. Yes! So that's nice once in awhile. But what I think really helps me most is visual stuff. So that includes like when we watch movies, I don't have an accommodation for this, so I'll just ask out of curiosity, and I'll ask can we have the captions on? Because that's one reason why I love watching foreign movies in class is because they always have the captions on. And I love captions so much, you guys. Oh my god. Oh by the way, Google, you really need to improve your caption thingies. They're just-- [SCOFFS]. But anyway, I mean, because that just really helps me absorb what it is they're talking about, because otherwise, like you've got everybody here. And I've already forgotten what-- I wanted to reply to something that Sean said, but I've totally forgot what he said. And maybe if I'd had captions, I would remember. But, no, sadly. BRIAN THOMAS: Real time. Thank you. A couple of points of clarification. RFB&D, which is Recording for the Blind and Dyslexic, is now called Learning Ally. And it's been around for a long time, reporting recordings for the blind. And their whole business plan is they're just all of these volunteers, and they're recording just about every book that's imaginable. And if it's not out there like a textbook or even a novel, they'll put it on for you, which has been great. And they've been a really great friend of PEN, the Parent Education Network. And I wanted to go back to something that you guys talked about which was the whole idea of self-advocacy, because this panel is a form of self-advocacy, right? They influence teachers. Sometimes they will influence even their peers. And now being here at Google in front of this group of maybe a mixed audience, maybe some parents who are interested, or maybe you have a child who's dyslexic or ADD/ADHD, perhaps you're thinking about policy in the future. I want to know when you have advocated, and it's not worked. You've gone up, and perhaps it was a little bit earlier in your own sort of self-conception as being someone with a learning disability. And a lot of you talked about-- Mia and Annie talked about legal accommodation. So if there is an evaluation, psycho-ed evaluation, or sometimes even input from a medical doctor, this is the law of the land with ADA, the Americans with Disabilities Act. But tell me about a time when you have advocated for yourself, and it hasn't worked. What did you do next? TAMARA: Well, I don't really have a situation where it didn't work. But I do have a situation where it was a little bit tricky, at least in the beginning. Because I had this teacher, a new teacher, and when we were doing a timed essay in class, she said that I and this other student who has a learning difference-- that she said we didn't need the extended time and that we would finish. And so I guess me and the other student immediately leaped up from our chairs and told her that we need our extended time. And I mean, to put it bluntly, it's not really the teacher's opinion. Because it says in our learning plan that we need this. And then she let us have it. So I was happy. FRANKIE: I haven't, again, had a time when it hasn't really worked. But I do have a 504, which is basically an IEP, in that sense, for Individualized Education Plan, I believe. So it's a legal document. I have a legal document saying that I need these accommodations. So there has been times when I have walked up to teachers like my Spanish teacher, and I've told her I need this. And she says why? And I said I have this learning disability-- a learning difference, and I need this accommodation in order to succeed. And she'll be like, it's fine. You'll do fine. It's like, well, I have a 504 saying I need this. And she said, it's fine, Frankie, you're going to do fine. There has been times when I'm just like screw it. I'm just going to stay in the classroom. And I've done fine. So sometimes, I don't even bother going to her and asking her. I have had problems with my science teacher in freshman and this year about accommodations, because he's just-- yeah, he's just not the very nice guy. He's not the best guy. He's very intimidating to go up to and saying I need this. So but other than that, nothing really bad about for my accommodations. SEAN: So the only time that accommodations hasn't worked for me was when-- we have an RSP room, which is where all the learning disability kids can go to take tests, do homework, study, to kind of get away from-- like if they need accommodations done. And the only time that that hasn't worked was when a teacher thought that I didn't really need to go, because the test was only like a-- it was a really short test. But still, I would have liked to have the one-on-one testing, because that would really help. But so what ended up happening was I took the test in the classroom, but then I've learned that teachers are a lot more accommodating when you go to them after school. So I let them know that this is what I need to be able to succeed. And they ended up being fine with that. ANNIE: Uh, let's see, the first time I self-advocated was in the end of sixth grade. And I had never talked to teachers in my life. And I thought it was the scariest thing in the world. And I went up to my science teacher. And we had a poster assignment where we had to draw pictures and handwrite things. My topic was a jellyfish. And one of my main accommodations is the use of the computer, because my handwriting is just horrible. And I can't spell to save my life. And I mean, it doesn't matter. That doesn't show how smart I am. So I explained to my teacher that I had just been diagnosed, like two weeks ago, and that those were my accommodations. And she was almost acting like I was trying to get out of the assignment or make it easier or try to cheat. And she didn't give me the accommodations. I got a D on my assignment, and I just cried for days. It was horrible. And I ended up having to have my mom get involved. And she talked to the principal, and we eventually worked it out. But it was horrible, because it's not fair. And so now, whatever I self-advocate, I usually keep my accommodations list, like the little kind of summary of my psych-ed report in my backpack just in case anything comes up. Because like Brian was saying, learning disabilities are qualified under the-- BRIAN THOMAS: Americans with Disabilities Act. ANNIE: Americans with Disability Act. And so it's like the same thing as giving a wheelchair to someone who can't walk or giving glasses to someone who can't see. It's just more of an invisible disability, so it tends to be overlooked. MIA: One of the main times that my accommodations haven't worked for me is this year, because I moved from this really small 45-student class-- teachers knew me. They knew my accommodations by heart. They knew everything I needed to succeed-- to this huge school. And so the first day of class, I went down to all of my teachers, and I explained my accommodations, and my LDs, and what I needed from them. And they were all really accommodating. They all said it was fine, like anything that I needed they would help me out. And I was just like oh, this is going to be great. I don't know what everyone was talking about. This school, like all the teachers were awesome. And then we had this math test, because basically what I assumed was that my teacher-- it doesn't matter that she has seven periods of 30 students. She can remember something that I told her once. So we had this math test, where we had a substitute teacher. And because I had only reminded her once, and I wasn't fully advocating, wasn't reminding her, didn't let her know the day before the test, she didn't put me on the list for people with extended time. She remembered my calculator, which was good, but not the extended time part. So although I was able to finish my test, my sub wouldn't give me the 10 extra minutes that I needed to finish checking the back of my sheet. And literally, I only needed 10 minutes during lunch or something. And those few problems where I wasn't able to check over were the only points that I lost on the test. So that was just a little bit annoying. But from then, I've learned that I just need to go back and tell my teachers really frequently. Every time I need something from them, I need to let them know. FIONA: For me, most of the problems that I've had really come from me. It's not other people. I'm mean-- wait, I'm not saying that you guys were bad or anything. I'm sorry. I just realized that how-- anyway. But the most recent time that I can really remember where I haven't been given an accommodation has been in Mandarin. And I really like Mandarin a lot. But there is the most stupid assignment that exists that we do every single week, and it's copy down all these characters in boxes. And I hate it so much. And I've actually talked about it in class. But that doesn't help, because everybody's like shut up, Fiona! [WHINING SOUNDS] But anyway. And I talked to my teacher, and he-- I don't know, I guess he just-- I'm not sure why he didn't give me the accommodation, but I mean, what can you do sometimes? But I did find a way to actually help, which is to pretend to play Tetris with the boxes, so that helped a lot. BRIAN THOMAS: I'm going to ask two more questions, and then we're going to open up for questions for other folks, just so I know that you've been sitting very, very patiently. One of the sort of stock questions that we have is like who's encouraged you. And usually 80% to 90% of the people would say their parents. And more to the point, usually it's a mom, oftentimes, or whoever's the custodial parent at home. So this is actually advice for parents. You know, advice for parents who are really beginning to go through this whole idea of-- you know, I think my kid may have a learning disability or I know my kid has a learning disability. What advice would you give them? TAMARA: Well, advice that would give to parents who have kids with LDs is-- I know this sounds kind of typical or cliche, but to give them some space. Because I know this has been really great for me when my parents give me space. Up until when I was in seventh grade, my parents helped with homework. And they are the most impatient people. It was horrible to get help from them on homework. Like it was bad for me, and it was bad for them. So to make a long story short, when I was in seventh grade, they stopped helping me with homework. And that's when I started to rely on my teachers for help. And I've always had really great teachers. I always ask them my questions right and there, even when I feel self-conscious, because I know that when I'm home, I'm on my own. I'm not asking my parents for help, so I need to know how to do the work before I get home. And the other thing is just to have faith in your kids, because I know that-- kind of like when you really do, then it really shows. And your kids will really trust in themselves. And that's really the most important thing is to trust in yourself and be confident. FRANKIE: My advice for parents is really get to know your child and what their difference is and what they're dealing with. Because it's important to understand what they need and what they are going through. And it it's important to know that because then you're not going to be able to help your child. And that is always one thing my mom is always done is she knows what I have. She knows what I need. She knows what I struggle with. She knows what my difficulties are. She knows what my strengths are. And without that, she won't be able to help me and tell a teacher or even maybe tell a tutor, who I've recently gone, that this is what he needs. He needs this. He's not going to be able to understand this unless you do this, this and this. So also just when they are having trouble, especially when a child has recently been diagnosed and they're at an older age, it can be one of the hardest things to go through. So just being there for a child saying that we're going to figure this out. We're going to get accommodations. We're going to get everything figured out with the school. That also really helps. SEAN: So one thing my mom, especially, tells me when I don't really do well on papers or tests is like OK, you didn't do too well, but how are you going to make it better? What are you going to do to make the difference? And that kind of helps, because to me, it encouraged me that she has supported me that I can succeed and that I can do it on my own. I just think that that's great, that I know she has my back. ANNIE: I definitely agree with what everyone has said just about generally being supportive. The process from before you were diagnosed to when you were diagnosed to after to even past when you've accepted it, it's all pretty challenging in kind of different ways, and just understanding how frustrating it can be, and just generally being there. But also, trying to stress the positives, because with learning disabilities, often, it's only the negatives that are focused on. But I mean, I know we've had panel questions before that are like what strengths accompany your learning disabilities. And everyone has two, three, four strengths that directly correlate to their disability. And that's not really talked about. And you can really use those strengths to help compensate for your struggles. BRIAN THOMAS: What's your strength? That was going to be my last question, by the way. ANNIE: Oh, sorry. BRIAN THOMAS: But that's OK. FIONA: Spoiler alert. BRIAN THOMAS: Yeah, spoiler alert. But just a process check. I know a lot of people probably have to begin to make a move at 1:00 or shortly after, but tell me what your strength is. ANNIE: Let's see. Well, despite the fact that writing takes me like hours, like four or five hours to write an essay, I'm a really, really solid writer when I have the amount of time. And also because my brain approaches things from a different direction, I'm really good at standardized tests and math. And I actually kind of really do enjoy math standardized tests and tend to do really well on them. Yeah, that's it. BRIAN THOMAS: Great, thank you. MIA: Well, going back to what parenting do I really-- I really agree with what everybody else is saying. And also I was really lucky to have a mom who never did this, but don't think that your child is stupid. If they're having trouble in one of their subjects, if they're having trouble in school, just know that they're not stupid, know that they're not lazy, just know they're having some trouble. Just like when somebody has glasses, people don't assume oh, they have glasses. They can't see. They must not good at school. They must be stupid. Just like if you have an LD or something, it doesn't mean you're stupid and lazy. It just means they might need help. FIONA: Number one. Don't kill your kids. And second of all, I would say make them go to all of this stuff themselves. Because I can't-- I'm sure that my mom can tell you that it's really up to the kid in the end what they do. And if I don't feel like taking my meds today, because I don't understand what they do, and because my mom just sat me down and lectured me after she went to this thing. I'm probably not going to do it. It's not like I don't do it, though. Just saying. But it's important that they learn about it themselves, because eventually they're going to leave and then they won't know what is going on. So make them go to SAFE. BRIAN THOMAS: Great. Just real quickly, there is the idea of Sally and Bennett Shaywitz, who were really great friends at PEN, really talk about overcoming dyslexia. But these guys, they don't really need to overcome anything, right? They have defined, very focused strengths that make them who they are, that make them the kind of learners and the kind of people they are. Annie certainly is taking a crack at answering this, but some of the rest of you, could you just talk about your strengths? Just shout it out. What are you good at? TAMARA: Well, I'm really good at reading and writing, which I used to think that I was actually bad at reading and writing, because I always took a long time to do it. But actually, I was taking this literature class at my school. And I was taking a long time to do it. Because I take a long time to read things, and I have to read things multiple times, that I actually get a lot of detail, and I get a lot of the nuances and the symbolism. And I realized that that when we were discussing the book in class that I was actually really understanding it really well, and that I was enjoying it. And I realized this was one of my strengths. And so that's when I started to feel proud of my learning difference. FRANKIE: So before maybe I was even a toddler, from before I was diagnosed, acting. Acting has always been one of my strengths. I love getting up on stage. Even just public speaking, like what we're doing right now, through SAFE, I've figured out that I am actually really good at public speaking, getting in front of crowds. And speaking my mind is something I'm really good at. Playing a character on stage, I've always loved doing that. When I was in middle school, I discovered I'm really good at creative writing. I suck at persuasive essays-- suck at it. And I hate doing them. And what I do sometimes, I'll do my own creative writing. I write things myself. I do short stories. I do scripts. So whenever I have free time, I'll do that. Yeah, I think that's pretty much my biggest strengths. SEAN: So my biggest strength is basically not giving up. I mean, like I've been at the bottom. I've failed many times, but I've always been able to get out of it. So, yeah, because of my learning disabilities, I've been able to endure the worst and being able to bring it up. FIONA: Weather the storm. MIA: I have a lot of the similar things, like perseverance and being able to talk in public, and advocate for myself, and be able to tell people what I need and how they can help me get there. I had something-- oh yeah, also because of ADD or ADHD, being very fidgety and kind of hyperactive, that helps me out when I play sports and also when I'm working with younger kids. Like I worked at a circus camp with Annie over the summer. And because of my ADD, in addition to just overall excitedness, I'm able to keep up with them, and just kind of keep going, and really excited about everything. FIONA: I kind of have-- this is sort of relating to what Frank was saying, is that I'm really good at acting, but it's mostly because I really good at understanding what other people are feeling. Like I'll kind of take the time to really think through what other people or what other characters are kind of why they're doing the things that they're doing. And I think that's a really big strength that I have, too. BRIAN THOMAS: Any other questions? Or question to the-- question was to Tamara, and it's about you said about talking about your parents giving you room, but what's behind that? TAMARA: Well, I've never answered that question before, so I'll just do my best. I've never consciously thought about it. But I feel like I really appreciate when my parents understand my learning difference, because I think that sometimes it's kind of hard to understand. And so when they do, I feel really happy, because sometimes when they ask me a question, and you know how people, when you ask them a question, they kind of expect an automatic answer But I'm not really good at that. And so my mom and my dad understand that I just need a little longer to think about it. And it's not that I'm ignoring them. So I think it's a combination of kind of supporting them, because I know that I can talk to my mom whenever I need to. And also I guess a combination of that and giving me room, so I guess it's the kind of nice that I can always go to them, and they'll check on me once in awhile. BRIAN THOMAS: The question was the turning point in your lives when you decided to either go in one direction or not, right? So when you decided that you were either going to bomb out or you were going to really tackle this head on. So Fiona, want to start off with this? FIONA: Well, I would probably say it was the fact that I really, really like learning. And if you really like learning and if you really like what-- even if you're not good at reading, but let's say that you really like what books have to say, if that's what really makes you happy, then you'll be willing to go through a lot of stuff. I mean, if people alienate you, you've always got books. Books are your friends. Because books are awesome. Even if they don't have words, they can have pictures. Pictures are nice. But yeah, I mean, overall, I would say it's hard. To raise your kids to be motivated, even if they don't have a learning disability, how do you even do that? So you're on your own. BRIAN THOMAS: Tamara? Oh sorry, go ahead. MIA: I think one of the main turning points for me when I stopped going-- oh, I don't really care. I'm horrible at it anyway. Why even try?-- was probably when they stopped testing us on math facts for speed. Because I remember in fourth grade, Mad Minutes-- 30 multiplication facts in one minute. I think I accomplished three over the course of the year when my classmates, they got to the 60 division facts. So once they stopped testing us, first testing us on spelling, just like tests of them, and also when they stopped just basically the memorization and more to the thinking about it. And like Fiona, I really enjoy learning. I really want to learn. But so I think once they stopped doing it for facts, and once learning turns into more concept, ideas, and what your opinion is, that was my turning point. ANNIE: Basically, it wasn't like just a moment or anything. It's kind of the process of going from having all these struggles and realizing that there is a reason and then understanding what that label means and then like-- when I was diagnosed with dyslexia, I eventually read through my psych-ed report. And my mom became really educated and was able to really help me learn what it is. And once you do know what your label means, you're able to figure out accommodations and strategies and strengths. And then once you have the strength and strategies, the playing field's kind of leveled and everything just doesn't seem so impossible anymore. And it's just not as intimidating and a lot easier to tackle. SEAN: So the turning point for me was probably when I graduated from eighth grade, because I decided that I could be whoever I wanted to be. I wasn't constricted to oh, he can't learn. Let's just kind up give up on him. So it was basically that, when I basically said, OK, I'm going to be this straight-A student. I'm going to be the smartest student there. And also another moment that kept me on that track was when my learning disability teacher or mentor or whatever you would want to call him, he has a sign that's hanging up in his room. And it's "no excuses." So he wouldn't let me use my learning disabilities as an excuse for not succeeding. FRANKIE: My turning point was probably when I joined SAFE Voices, just because where I went to school at Charles Armstrong, I went to that school for seven years, from second to eighth grade. And like I was saying, well, like I said earlier, being different was normal. So I didn't really think about it until I got into high school, and I joined SAFE. And after going to a few SAFE Voices meetings, I really realized OK, I'm just going to keep on fighting for it. I'm going to keep on going and going until I reach my goal. And every time, every year, I'm getting closer and closer to my goal. I'm figuring out what I want to do with myself after college, what my interests are, what I'm good at, what I'm bad at. TAMARA: So I think I kind of have one specific moment, which doesn't sound like a big deal when I'm saying it aloud, but it was a pretty big deal for me. I was reading this novel by Toni Morrison for the first time. In the beginning, I was like oh, man, this is so hard. All the symbols, I don't get it. And then we had discussions every day. And one day, I just said this one comment that I didn't even know that I knew. But I just said it. It was kind of like an instant-- like the words just crawled up my throat and burst out, basically. And I was like, wow, I didn't even know I could do that. And from then, I started to really realize that I'm good at these analyzing things and kind of character analysis. BRIAN THOMAS: And I just have to say we have to stop right there. I'm going to turn it back over to Debbie, but the corollary to Sean's-- in his RSP room, which is "no excuses" should be for parents certainly, for schools, for people like me, administrators, and certainly for teachers, which is just don't give up. To see every student that you have, every child that you have in front of you can learn and would really like to learn, no matter what they're giving off sometimes. But it's not giving up on an individual student. It's not so much about that the kids not having excuses, which is great. And it's not really about overcoming either. I think it's about that nexus between when two people sit down, where there's a teacher and a student, and says OK, let's begin. And it sounds like these guys have done a great job. So if you can give them a round of applause for that. [APPLAUSE]