Fbi Archives - Joseph gorden lahey hypnosis interview on undercover drug operations

deftly hour of sixty january thirty one nineteen eighty five and we're looking at losses chasing too losses occupied by the federal bureau of investigation san antonio texas the purpose of the really important joseph lyrically perfect little stuart refresh his memory pollutants that he may have witnessed associated with an undercover reverse operation in miami lakes florida or off eleven nineteen eighty four in addition to his salt james to the jenny especially to the federal bureau of investigation d_e_a_ specially generator furthers presidents for gerardo caesar's c_n_n_ senior inspectors drug enforcement ministration headquarters cdc and doctors who treat you are required practices texas do you understand why you are here with the purpose of these etcetera english team your personal situation has to talk interview such as your foot in front of alter uni objection was videotaping people not at all do you have any objection if any of the people of the present if you do it please let's go obviously reject it's not real prompt well basically what we're doing and just work not comfortable talking works alaska at a its people spy operation if you agree transformer right it's not like to give just flew back to the neglect *** he's a certified licensed clinical psychologist in private practice in san antonio texas he's involved the treatment of several hundred patients each move from the train many doctors therapy he's a typically american board of psychological perot systems especially in clinical sources answers as a special let's hope to be a the questions no mannitol roared head just a moment to may deny and stuff carryover here to do in terms of uh... how we're going to use hypnosis hypnosis is an altered state of consciousness so sonawane invasive procedure but the way it's going to be used for years clearly is uh... more relaxation focused than anything else um... hollow jackie gleason tests answering questions you have meant exactly how we're going to use and in here uh... some people think of hypnosis is asleep states uh... it's really not be she is different sleep in uh... actually it's going to be in this situation more like heaven bakery you're going to be aware uh... being relaxed and being here be aware of staying sporadic a person who would be heading hypnosis for surgery was not we would ask him did so see we've asked go fishing how do you know where they wanted to go out and we can see that they get there they wouldn't be here and obviously that would be counter to what we're want to do here this is to enhance and hypnosis has ah... as it's another a focus uh... now the focus surgery patient kind of the same focuses your i would have we listened to a boring speaker would be the speaker would be away some we hope that this will be the same kind of focus that uh... or woman would have won first and a child with hypnosis uh... she doesn't want to be away she wants to be a part of that she's hypnotized to produce anesthesia which is very much involved here uh... if we were listening very interesting charismatic speaker we would be very much involved here to the exclusion brothers thanks where the focus will be it will be here part of you um... focusing on our questions and you also uh... then be someone else were asking you to go to the situation i called up memory block just back visualize this other places other times where you have certainly then and uh... place yourself there and then go with abs forward from there is that were happy now uh... go forward uh... through that period of time s you know we can do to slowly carefully we can come to stop the action and have you going that far and answer some questions taken and uh... it will as i understand that it will be at a time that uh... up were anymore involved with the actions you will of the simply the in tell us what you're doing as you go through it again in your mind uh... the reason the excused him well in a moment to consciously used to see uh... uh... what the difference against between your conscience recollect recollection would which is a course being here and the president and trying to remember back as to what happened as opposed to uh... getting relaxed and then going back there and bill for or against the law what seems to elicit better recall that basically that's it that's what we do that comparison heavy tel mister kenney consciously which remember than we do the hypnotic so let's see it nutshell i guess i mean only to blow up how much alaska now before we do the actual hypnotic u formally if you want any medication roar okay and that do you have any other medical history media karenga unconsciousness trouble with anesthesia and any psychiatric history thank you well know well i guess one of them and how is your vision normally subtotal twenty nor so it's not twenty twenty twenty twenty uh... quicktime i'm afraid i have about two point six summer courses for distance i do occur request but i don't recall because uh... okay at the time of this uh... particular situation where you wearing glasses or was it purchased uh... starter work exact *** or your from the last year and are you tuna which uh... colorblind do you have separate blues and yellows reds and dreams reno's recent tested for them six months corrected any questions for me i would like to do is really concerned let me ask you to look at fast-track january thirty one nineteen eighty five percent twenty six ext high court and joseph brennan hereby agreed voluntarily unfriendly to undergo hypnosis indian of yogurt an order to assist program ministration yeti with continue or investigation media is conducting finished and change the buchanan a special agent via will be present the system here understand that the other tape recordings made in the entire interview this method preservation of the interview may be used for any lawful purpose to make with this investigation or any subsequent action based upon the investigation doctor richard b garber health professional as explained procedures to be used during the course includes ghosts and any questions i had concerns procedure to have been injured much satisfaction purpose of this interview under hypnosis used to assist my memory recalling of those when they have witnessed associated with an undercover reversed operation miami lakes florida form march eleventh nineteen anymore let me ask you what feel like you understand doctor burk richest like to see the tape record time process towards us as it pertains to this insists this operation right back prior to march you ever thought that was it probably the night i was down there from savannah system here simply operation grouper separate nation charges about that that we had a young another river still go down the et cetera occasionally the apartment with no involving flashing it a fifty thousand thirty keys cook i got involved in the chain of custody of the coke it was bothersome to me that the uh... the methods of controlling use for the evidence not up to my standards using its bases that sometime require before they went down on you know by the fact that was that morning we had a radio how the deal was going to go as i said that uh... i was insistent that we were going to have some color using i don't want to be evidence labels insecure the more that was anticipated to be obtained from the uh... violators seal that in some matter admit but special but when you get involved with it and that way i would have to be involved the chain of custody of the evidence core case of a basically the groups in miami and that my participation of operating a sealed box i could hold it for a period of time interna back program still not appear in me personal training custody because of the uh... my confidence in the ceiling method just uh... i would have to be a personal involvement chatting testing solo at some time with the meeting in the morning insisted that we do use part of the day to get labels evidence labels and put it in the box and somehow we got the xerox box they've been are we all went out to the undercover area video first thing they uh... group supervisor surprise may twenty change implanted you've been on the outside situation which is a surveillance and the rest of back i definitely department cook because i've urls or there was a supervisor at all it was her from out of town in that russia dot i've heard that job it's his group in his operation but i agreed to do it anyway we get set up on your part of the top miami lakes uh... deal was that the other coverage in srini apartment address we have done in the past hedberg i screw up to the seven-eleven area call the house another coverage would come out repairman lead them into the area as protective meantime we had the preliminary surveillance up seven eleven determined that they had received a call webster beijing he would come up to me trans a m me but the two subjects i think ran a super bowl station wagon and drive towards a house let's agree on something fun and we had set up on the house i set up in a position that looking down they'd dead-end or call the sack driveway at birth and i think bout five apartments on either side where i could see sidewalk entrance to the house which is recessed back off the sidewalk wards uh... we have previously arranged that uh... it's a deal went down bad guys got the coke that the uh... agent healy would come out to the car with the paragraph visual signaled that deal gone down that we would put the arrest planned an operation but also planned that uh... after securing the bad guys which was to take place although swing within sight of the undercover apartment keep big eyes younger cover partner cool we would fake hitting the apartment kicking out the door allege william arresting them to make bad guys like that they worked out pickups we set up a department as i said i was sitting right over g_m_c_ blazer fishburne triple dot i was sitting in with a female agent from sergeant deputy sheriff from some rural county near panama city florida singer was very excited about what's called a secondary character reporting we had uh... dade county marking it both ends of it with agents following number with them coke was not in the house and the bad guys right they made another phone call and judge juncture rot drove up in his z car parker and took broke into the house worked with cooked tore the house disturbance at his car which was crossed the drive from department eventually uh... patio in the tube there guys came out put something in the car since she was with them i know that uh... they had the cocoa word of the uh... under surveillance unit soon as they came up in turned down the street outside of the press department dade county public safety and moved in from the front super stop 'n i started to back up and the other parking and came up behind them the agents in the car behind the dade county united front came at the car for this time i had come over the wall retaining wall between driveway where i was more the action was media progress without reference to your time both guys had guns we seize them i'm a cook withstand a confusion for example molecules and then as an afterthought sort of polio what's at the apartment jeff got there had to me because he was a really involved in the bust and nobody made a lot more reasons than for white sherri automatic out says okay let's go to department ran down there short distance to attend who got a caller makes a lot how it looked like a pocketful that idea put up a bit on the door and women inside the agents i remember that were in their words ted we need larry on pattie lee and i think door driven from panama city someway i got the money and that's been the urge somebody said there is box of money that money is in the box and they were that evidence tapes for on it and some of the also suggested hurry up twists clean up the place because we expect another but repair guys and they're going to run some ordeal again as i picked up the box the evidence tapes kmart not to put up a pop up the bottom and uh... summer session elegant chain of custody money i took it back out took custody of the money unanimously elect or going back to my blazer over back over the fence print my memory progress previously that jeff and i got in this physique are and wrote down to the gas station or semester brought surgeons were and whoever had driven by blazer down there but the money in the back of the blazer solstice female weijin there was a black agent of the company spectrum did you get your office character money upstairs group form a group of working with then an agent from savannah that work for me and to local police officers from maine i'm going to go to church berkeley county police department georgia who where with me par boiled to raj calendar money quickly recounted bottles i don't recall which an intermittent started to her quarter resort about a hundred and sixty five thousand dollars there temporarily sealed the put the money back in a box temporarily sealed it again directed in plastic tape and put my evidence stickers on it but my sb a matter of time and stored it in seoul cus was two days later but check it out process the money cabinet again and again verified account on it and put it into your evidence envelopes clear evidence envelopes and he'll heat seal dot turned in the cashier are not the trial brixton made about the fact that the money was not what was supposed to pay riots and sorry were american trial that the defense attorney had already given his defendants power grab his client the defendant polygraph tests and they had pestered her indicated that they had not taking a minute there was two hundred for twenty thousand or something like that they're and their personal or indeed you must be responsible for it loss of it i took polygraph are desperate but i don't have anything to it without going into details are going up questions that's what i don't specifically what would that was important and let me ask you this reporter their efforts to be quite honestly we don't know what aspect please espn suture roadmap confirm any of the person talking to you this person to cut it started i think for purposes he said it was a meeting pure before they went out i was reading a preacher of strep that morning as opposed to pay before will use that week has a point we would go to okay it than speed stitching struck touch with the academic pukekohe sarcastic is creature with a smile what date it was like a great parts that today at the eleventh analytically so conversations how you end up of the state return basically field if at any time on talking to investigator your kids logical and while i'm gone three to four the force unleashed too slow for me at all but it's an exclusive sculptor each starting tomorrow that i feel that and if you don't like the end of the question ustrust com version of the engineer tears and while i don't know i didn't say we have four or for the march eleven so we want to go to the meeting before march eleventh scenario march eleventh th morning or were engaged me discussion refusing interested in that meeting really so it's just blocks any discussion clark's house tree i really think that would be treating him too with group one one speech ep fraternity uh... pat transcript ready for that they do that business because no i did not not yet federal *** statute com politically so it's a guerilla army reporters just like a cat problems about all azide as i mentioned to you before uh... were both during our talked with you help control act and uh... and help you go through this and uh... basically if you were going through this uh... probably as you were thinking about these events do even had mental pictures that formed in your mind responses to recounting basically that's uh... what we're going to be doing except that uh... might like to start by just to closing ron's relaxing just being his company and uh... under that would be uh... taking your pollster kidney stone have this so i can have some idea of how you're doing and if you just take uh... a deep breath for me now slovene c_n_n_ let it all out another one this one on the ice tea grant hold on okay jordan now feel the tension built and use that as a signals to police upto not all tension ran away what i'd like you do is to begin in just two tobacco way that'll help you do that mr starr one think silently to yourself backward by law and continue to do just uh... give me a signaled by lieutenant spangler adjective nine times account was different marxist helps you concentrate consciously your unconscious mind and it just happens very natural are you doing that now i want you also that just kind of drift back and time earlier eighty-four last last month it really doesn't matter what defense you touch uh... during this course but the target march eleven nineteen eighty one at that meeting which is discuss and i just want you to kind of take your time and drift back to that time and when you when you get there and what you've just place yourself at that meeting so that we can go forward from and when you do that you can stop the counting you can't just let me know by uh... oh just racing another signal that we can't use there's a part of your brain your unconscious by that helps relax even i'm just going to give you a signal that signal is just uh... pressure on your right shoulder just like this pressure will be a signal for you to relax even more become more involved in in the in the jury and when you can get a picture of you at that before it starts her just as it starting you could pick spot you know best work began venue signalman and mr kenny and i will help you get more involved actually uh... we're going to be going along for the ride so to speak and having you sort of the art eyes that are here's archived bullets you help us needs you to tell us where we're going wannabe their with yelling so it'll be some pictures that are occurring to us as you explain your stuffs what you're seeing to be now when that time becomes now wants you to go through that tell us what you're doing now what you're going to do next and you will will be attempting to stay with you to form pictures in our minds as well what has happened how you describe it kept us and i suggest to you as you warned this method as you go along that uh... that you'll be able to use this yourself to relax and uh... handle world stress