Oak Creek One Year Later, Part Ii - Valarie kaur state of belief interview August 4, 2013

[REV. DR. C. WELTON GADDY, HOST]: As the people of Oak Creek, Wisconsin gather to mark the sad anniversary of the mass shooting one year ago at the Sikh temple there, Valarie Kaur is back in Oak Creek for the observance and with us on State of Belief Radio. Valarie, I feel pretty sure we're in agreement that we have been changed by the event that took place there, and the way people responded. But I'm eager - because you have some people there with stories to tell - I'm eager for you to get with them, and so right now, I'm going to give you the microphone across the United States, and you take it and let us hear from some of the people from Oak Creek. [VK]: Welton, one of the most inspiring people I met, and have come to know and love in the past year, is Pardeep Kaleka. He is the eldest son of Satwant Singh Kaleka, the man who fought the gunman and died that August 5th morning in the Sikh gurdwara. He was the president of the Sikh gurdwara; he was the heart and soul of this community, and Pardeep Kaleka has decided, in response to his father's death, to find ways to call for an end to hate in new and powerful ways. And, in fact, I'm sitting with him here and now. We're sitting in a gallery where he and his team have been working around the clock to prepare for this weekend's anniversary events. Pardeep, I'm so happy to be able to sit with you. [PARDEEP SINGH, GUEST]: Thank you for having us, Welton and Val. [VK]: Tell me... Help me and help the listeners understand how it is that you were able to turn from grief and pain into action and service. [PS]: Well, I mean, you already mentioned peace and prayer, and I think both of those are important everyday things that we do when we try to get over something bad that's happened. The third principle that we draw on is purpose. And the whole Sikh community, after this, has developed a purpose on just being out in the community. It's lit a fire, and people that were a little more enclosed before, but it lit a fire to symbolize everything that Wade Page was not. Wade Page came in there with the ideas of suffering, isolation. As Sikhs, as we move on, we want to represent what he wasn't. We want to be open, and we want to be in the spirit of Chardi Kala - relentless optimism - that's been our mission to do that ever since August 5th. [VK]: Pardeep, what's been so amazing to me is to watch how in the last year you've helped found this organization called "Serve to Unite," and that you have joined forces with a former white supremacist to travel the state and the nation, calling for an end to hate. Tell me how you met Arno Michaelis. [PS]: Well, me and Arno Michaelis, we both work for an organization called AVE - Against Violent Extremism - which tries to combat these ideologies that people hold that lead to hate and hate crimes. This organization linked us up together, and we communicated for a while after the August 5th shooting via texting, email, and we finally set up a dinner appointment where we were going to meet each other at dinner. And everything in my mind, at that time, was, you know, I'm scared to do this; I fear what's going to happen. I'd just been through all this stuff from August 5th, and what am I doing? You know, my parents came to me... I'm sorry, my mom came to me and she was worried. So we met for dinner for the first time, and ever since then, Arno's been able to explain to me why an August 5th would happen; and more importantly, he was able to explain to me what we can do about it moving forward... And there's a sense of healing. [VK]: Arno Michaelis is sitting with us today, and Arno, I'm so pleased to have you with us. Thank you so much. Your story, itself, is remarkable: that you spent seven years in a white supremacist group, helping found the group here in Milwaukee back in 1987. You even sang in a band that spewed hate music - the kind of music, and the kind of environment, that Wade Michael Page was immersed in before he committed his shooting. And yet, you walked out of that lifestyle, and you decided to commit your life to peace. You were the author of "My Life After Hate," and you've helped found an organization of the same name. Tell me, what was your reaction to the Oak Creek tragedy? [ARNO MICHAELIS, GUEST]: The Oak Creek tragedy really hit home for me in the sense that in almost every way, the shooter was someone who I used to be. He was a white power skinhead; he was affiliated with many of the same organizations that I was involved with - some of which I helped found. He was involved in white power music, as I was. He came along a few years after I left, but I'd be really surprised if he had never heard of my band, and it's pretty likely, actually, that he was a fan. So when I saw him on the news, I saw myself. And first of all, I just ached, and I felt miserable for the people who lost their parents, and their grandfather - that was really difficult for me. But it also brought a really amazing sense of gratitude, that I didn't end up like him - and I very well could have. If it wasn't for some very brave people during my seven-year involvement - people who I was openly hostile to because of the color of their skin, or because of their sexuality, or their religion - and these people were brave enough to respond to my hostility with kindness. And those acts of kindness planted seeds that put me in a position to make the right decision when some milestone events happened in '94, which is namely a second friend of mine murdered in a street fight after I had become a single parent a couple months prior. That event could have sent me in the wrong direction; but thanks to these acts of kindness, it sent me in the right direction. And that makes what happened on August 5th all the more powerful in my life, and also, in the spirit of Chardi Kala, I think it's an opportunity to transform this tragedy into something inspirational; to demonstrate the power of kindness, both for formers and for survivors, for us to move forward and work together and build a more peaceful world. [VK]: You and Pardeep first met at that dinner last fall, and since then have joined forces in this powerful way. How did that come to be? [AM]: Well, as Pardeep said, it was through Against Violent Extremism, and the dinner was absolutely historic. I was as nervous as he was - you know, he probably had more cause to be nervous, but I - as you see, and as you've seen in the past - this is a really emotional issue for me, and I was terrified that upon meeting Pardeep, I would just collapse into a blubbering, sobbing mess and not even be coherent. Fortunately, he had had a mishap just a couple of days before where he had a big bandage on his eye - he looked like a fighter - and I think my first words to him was like, "Dude, what happened to your eye?" It was kind of an icebreaker, and we got to talking, and he told me what happened to his eye - it was a real kind of bizarre mistake and accident, and the same kind of bizarre accidents happen to me - I'm very accident-prone myself. So that kind of started to reveal all sorts of commonalities that Pardeep and I found. My favorite is when we talk about our dads, and Pardeep will talk about how his father would have the lawnmower parked in the living room, because he didn't want to pay anybody to fix it, and I was like, "My dad does that, too!" And so from that day forward, our friendship and our brotherhood, it really empowers our activism and our work - and it comes through. I think it literally helps move people. [VK]: So through this remarkable friendship - you both have traveled the country speaking to young people - what is your takeaway message for them? [PS]: You can obviously see from how Arno is responding to everything that he takes a lot of ownership for everything that's going on - and how this year has been just as hard on him as on me. You can see it from the way he talks, the way he communicates with people, that he's, like, "I'm responsible for this." The takeaway message is that as watch the news, as we listen to somebody else's story, as we are present - then be present. Because no longer can we watch the news and say, "Hey, you know what? I'm responsible for that." If we watch the news and we see the first five stories about a homicide in the inner city, a lot of people say, "Well, that's happening over there. I'm not responsible for it." Whenever I watch the news, and a lot of people say that, you know, "You're going through post-traumatic stress because you can't watch the news anymore" - I say, "No, I'm going through post-traumatic growth because I can't watch the news anymore." And the reason is because everything on the news is my fault. Everything bad that happens - I say, "That's my fault. I didn't do enough about it." And as long as we in America start to say, "This is my fault," then we'll keep this from ever happening again.\ [VK]: As we commemorate the one-year anniversary, what do you want people in America to remember? What do you want them to do? [PS]: I want people to remember the lives that we lost that day - obviously the six lives and Punjab Singh still being in a vegetative state; the sacrifices people made that day. I want people to remember them, and never forget - just like we haven't forgotten 9/11; just as we haven't forgotten a lot of atrocities that happened to us. But more importantly, I want people to act. We can talk and walk, but we've got to do and walk. [VK]: Arno? [AM]: I think it's really important to really understand the courage and the strength that it takes to respond to aggression with compassion. I like to believe that we're following in the footsteps of Mahatmas Gandhi, and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who, as they changed the world through nonviolent means, and they faced increasingly horrific violence against them, they became more fearless and more compassionate. And I think that's a huge takeaway from August 5th, 2012, is that the Sikh community set this example, that we're not going to respond in anger; we're not going to be consumed by vengeance. We're going to open ourselves up more; we're going to be more compassionate; we're going to serve other people; we're going to reach out into the community. So to me - and I'm still kind of a rebellious guy; I like the idea of being kind of pugnacious, I like the idea of rebellion - and I really see this as a rebellion against hate and violence. It's a rebellion of love, and the rebellion of fearlessness. And I like to use my story as an example of the power of kindness, and how kindness changed my life and all the lives in my path. There could have been a lot more people hurt than I had already done. Instead, because of these acts of kindness, I am now honored to work with Pardeep, and Amardeep, and to affect the lives of young people and help them move into better directions. So it's very clear evidence of the power of a small act of kindness can have on the world around us. [VK]: So Welton, you've heard just one of many inspiring stories to come out of Oak Creek, Wisconsin. We hope that your listeners will, if they're in the area - if they're anywhere near Wisconsin - will come to Oak Creek this weekend. We have a number of events, from a memorial walk to a vigil to a gathering on August 5th itself - but people around the country can go to their local Sikh gurdwaras and be expected to be received with open arms; to share a meal; to light a candle. We hope that your listeners, as all Americans, can join us to never forget Oak Creek. [WG]: Valarie Kaur is a third-generation Sikh-American activist and filmmaker who's in Oak Creek, Wisconsin for the one-year anniversary of the mass shootings at the gurdwara there. She spoke with Pardeep Kaleka, the oldest son of Satwant Singh Kaleka -- the president of the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, who was gunned down during the attack, and Arno Michaelis, a former neo-Nazi / White Supremacist, who had a change of heart. I will always remember from this interview "post-traumatic growth." What a terrific concept. Valarie, Pardeep, Arno -- you have our adniration, and you have our deep appreciation for being with us today on State of Belief Radio. [VK/PS/VK]: Thank you so much. Thank you, Welton.