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ELLIOTT WILSON: Hey, it's Elliot
Wilson for Rap Radar,
man, Crown 2.
I'm very excited, man.
It's another late night
in the city.
We did it once with Tyler.
This time we got J Cole.
He's got a new album, "Born
Sinner," that's coming out.
J COLE: Instantly, I thought of
"Inside the Actors Studio,"
which I love.
I was like, aw, man,
it'd be so ill.
You know what I mean?
And then plus, it's with
Elliott, and we always had the
illest conversations.
It's like with interviews.
It's really a conversation.
ELLIOTT WILSON: Just about
to let the crowd in.
There's a line already
down the block.
It's crazy.
It's going to be good.
I've interviewed him
several times.
We've had real candid
conversations.
Hopefully, we can have that same
level of candor in front
of a live audience.
J COLE: There's a balance of
not trying to give away too
much about the album, because
I'm very secretive, and I want
it to be a surprise.
And also, just me being a
private person, period.
You know, and finding that
balance, and giving these
people what they came for,
which is insight.
When there's excitement
and there's
interest, I go on a spree.
ELLIOTT WILSON: So these people
that love you to you.
J COLE: And which, they're
here, so we'll see.
It should be great.
ELLIOTT WILSON: You know,
I'm ready to go, man.
Yeah.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ELLIOTT WILSON: Ladies and
gentlemen, J Cole.
Hi, Jermaine.
[CHEERING]
J COLE: How you all doin'?
You doin' alright?
What's up?
This is incredible,
by the way.
First of all, I wanna say--
I got it so good at the moment,
I haven't had the
chance to really
look anywhere.
ELLIOTT WILSON: Yeah,
there you go.
Go ahead.
Say hi.
Go ahead.
J COLE: The fact that you all
*** pay money, and waited
in that line.
I saw that line just
to come in for--
I'm not even rapping tonight.
This *** is crazy.
ELLIOTT WILSON: He
ain't performing.
There's no performance.
No performance.
This *** ain't rapping.
J COLE: So I say all that to
say, thank you all for coming.
ELLIOTT WILSON: No
doubt, thank you.
All right, "Born Sinner"--
you know, you hear
"Born Sinner"--
you know, even when we did the
"Respect" cover, it's like
it's the dark side.
You went through
a lot of drama.
But it's funny--
with that title, you would think
one thing, but what I
noticed in the limited press
that you're doing and
everything, you just look-- you
had that line in the first
album, "very happy"-- you look
very happy about your
situation right now.
So even though it's like born
sinner, you seem like you're
at your most proud and happy
and content place,
career-wise.
J COLE: Yeah, because "Born
Sinner," I feel like describes
the album, and you'll hear it.
It's talking about, I'm happy
now because I'm through that,
and I'm over that.
You'll hear all of that,
you know what I mean?
On the album.
But it describes that
time period.
Now wait a minute, I don't want
you to get "Born Sinner,"
and feel like I'm acting like
I'm the undertaker, you know
what I mean?
This is dark.
ELLIOTT WILSON: [LAUGHS]
But that's what we
expect of you.
J COLE: I'm the born sinner.
ELLIOTT WILSON: He's like, I
want some skull and bones, and
I'm going to wear a
leather jacket.
J COLE: But it does describe--
it's life, period.
I feel like "Born Sinner"
represents all of us, in a
sense, you know what I mean?
But it's that chapter that, I
promise you, it felt like--
there was literally times where
I felt like, whew, thank
god I ain't going through
that *** no more.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, thank god.
Like, oh, this is what it
feels like to be like--
you know what I mean?
Feeling like myself.
And what ways than
just musically.
Just as a person.
ELLIOTT WILSON: So what do you
think it really was, looking
back on it?
And how did you survive it?
J COLE: Just pressure,
at the end of the
day, know what I mean?
Mixed with, also, not
knowing how to
navigate through the industry.
Being like a Guinea pig, in
a sense, know what I mean?
That mixed with the pressure.
I just imagine Lebron James
for those first-- you all
know, everything with
me is all sports,
basketball-related.
But I imagine--
ELLIOTT WILSON: You like
that basketball?
J COLE: I imagine Lebron
James for those first
four or five seasons.
And he comes into the league,
and everybody's like, oh, King
James, King James.
And he's like, oh, ***, they
calling me King James--
before he ever even
played a game.
Then he's living up to
it-- ah, King James.
By that second, third season,
they're like, well, King
James, where's the ring?
And he's, like, ***.
And then he's balling his ***
off, makes it to the finals--
no ring.
Now Twitter comes
into existence.
Everybody's at King James, you
ain't got no rings, ***.
And he's like, ***.
***.
Every day, they're reminding him
about his hairline and his
rings, and it's like,
***, man.
I can't escape this ***.
So I say that that pressure--
we laugh about it because we're
not Lebron James, but
that *** is real.
Because I know what it's like
to be in the position, I
always look at Lebron
differently
than the average person.
I'm looking at him like,
***, I know the weight
he's dealing with.
So he won that chip,
it was like--
you know what I mean?
So there was a point--
and you all haven't heard the
album, but this is how I feel
about it-- there was a point
where I felt like that.
Like, [SIGHS]
like, here..
ELLIOTT WILSON: But you felt
like-- but the take even with
"Sideline Story," I remember
that you shocked the music
industry because you actually
sold a lot of records the
first week, without like--
J COLE: Yeah.
ELLIOTT WILSON: You sold
200,000 or so albums.
J COLE: 218,000 roughly.
ELLIOTT WILSON: Yeah.
But So I go to this thing--
J COLE: And they under-shipped
it.
But we're not gonna
talk about it.
ELLIOTT WILSON: Wait,
say it again?
J COLE: People couldn't
buy the album the
first couple days.
ELLIOTT WILSON: Oh, yeah,
I remember that.
Yeah, I forgot about that.
J COLE: When they don't expect
you to sell albums, they
under-ship your album.
ELLIOTT WILSON: So you
did 217,000 without--
J COLE: 218,000, roughly.
ELLIOTT WILSON: They
don't care about
the numbers, though.
So I hit this thing up, and
I'm like, yo, let's do a
"Respect" cover.
Let's celebrate, blah,
blah, blah.
I meet with him,
and he's like--
he's already like--
I mean, and said-- you
had a great quote.
You said to me that you're more
proud of the numbers than
the actual product in
that situation.
J COLE: Yeah.
I say this, because there are
people out there-- and
probably in here, too--
I walked through the airport,
and somebody'd be like, Cole,
I *** love you.
The album is a classic.
And then I have to say, thank
you, I appreciate that.
But in my heart, I
know [GRUNTS].
It's not like, oh, I
coulda went harder.
I just know--
I know the couple things that
I did, that I coulda did
differently.
And basically, long story
short, it didn't have--
what I always dreamed about
was that initial impact of
like, boom.
So numbers-wise, it
did something
that I couldn't have--
ELLIOTT WILSON: Imagined.
J COLE: --imagined.
But in terms of that
impact that I
wanted, from very long--
we know the story of, and we're
going to learn even
more, like what happened
for me to go there.
But it didn't have that boom.
So right away, what you're
talking about is, I
was aware of that.
So the first week we spent
celebrating, like, oh ***, we
*** get the numbers.
We wasn't expect that.
And then next week, I was
back, cooking up.
But I didn't know why, but it
was because subconsciously, I
felt unsatisfied.
ELLIOTT WILSON: Yeah.
And then you went on
a European tour.
And I guess that was-- like you
said, it was two things
you told me you needed to find--
inspiration, and you
started watching old
rap DVDs and
documentaries to get inspired.
Like Death Row.
J COLE: I watched everything.
Not just rap.
But I did literally--
shout out to my man, my man
loaded my computer up with all
of this stuff, like mad
documentaries, and some hip
hip, some just like conspiracy
theories, some that's like
National Geographic
ELLIOTT WILSON: Why did
I sell this records?
J COLE: I'll read a book.
But for the first time, I was
like in a pressure-free
environment, and just
wanted to--
I needed to refill my
tank that I had been
exhausting for like--
you all gotta remember, this
my second album, but it's
really like my fourth and I've
been out since 2009.
June 2009 when we put
out "The Warm Up."
ELLIOTT WILSON: Yeah.
You guys like that "Warm Up."
You like that "Warm Up." We'll
go back, take it back.
When did you know "The Warm Up"
was hitting, and was going
to get you that notice?
When did you feel, wow?
J COLE: When did I know that?
Well, you gotta understand, that
a lot of those songs were
our album songs.
Me and E and my man RJ, we used
to drive around with no
deal, broke.
I'm in a Honda Civic, which was
at some point in time--
ELLIOTT WILSON: Shout out
to everybody with
a Honda Civic still.
J COLE: That Honda Civic was
balling at some point.
I was feeling good
in that thing.
But we used to ride around on
our way to the club on our way
to wherever we was going,
and play these songs.
This is no deal.
And I had "I Get Up." I had
"2 Face" at the time.
I had "Lights Please."
ELLIOTT WILSON: Like
that "2 Face."
J COLE: At this time,
I had "Lost Ones."
This is 2007, 2008.
And I had these songs
that would not--
I was saving.
Some of them I was saving.
And so when "The Warm Up" came
out, I initially started "The
Warm Up" with those freestyles
that are on "The Warm Up,"
like "Til' Infinity" and the
"Just to Get By" freestyle.
And what I was going to do-- the
reason why it was called
"The Warm Up"-- is because I
was hungry for this deal.
And I related the rap game to
my short-lived basketball
career in high school,
where I got cut--
this is a real story.
I got cut my freshman year.
And I was like, this
is ***.
I'm better than all
these ***.
How you gonna cut me?
And then I went out the
next year, sophomore
year, I got cut again.
And I was like, what the ***?
You cut me again.
And then for the first time, I
had to look in the mirror and
be like, damn, ***, you not
even working towards what you
say you want.
So for the first time in my
life, I literally played every
day-- thousand shots a day,
full-court one-on-ones,
mini-drills, sprints.
I trained like a real
basketball player.
Made the team next year,
was starting by--
I have no history as a real
basketball like--
I have no real stats.
But this was an accomplishment
for me and my life.
And my mom always talks
about this, because
she sees her son--
I know *** that got cut, and
their pride was so real
that they'll never
go out again.
I was like, ***, I'm gonna be
on this *** team,
and then it's--
long story short, that's how
I looked at "The Warm Up."
I was going start it--
"The Warm Up" was gonna be all
freestyles, like "Dedication,"
like Lil' Wayne "Dedication,"
which I loved.
I was like, oh, I'm just gonna
kill all these freestyle.
But what happened was
the game changed.
The minute Drake dropped
"So Far Gone"--
you know what I mean?
The game instantly changed.
And I was already going to put
some of these album songs on
"The Warm Up." But the minute
he dropped "So Far Gone," it
was like, not only am I going to
put these on there, but I'm
going to put all of these other
*** on there, because--
ELLIOTT WILSON: Yeah, probably
you had to stack the deck.
J COLE: Yeah, because
I have to show them.
I got to come and play
my best hand, too.
Because he clearly came with
his, you know what I mean?
And instantly, right there, is
that's how "The Warm Up"
started or whatever.
And how did I know it was going
to have that impact?
I didn't know, because
I didn't know ***.
ELLIOTT WILSON: No, when did
you start feeling it was
having that impact?
J COLE: When did I feel it
was having that impact?
ELLIOTT WILSON: Well, because
it was before
Jay-Z signed you.
Like so when did you start
feeling like--
J COLE: No, no--
ELLIOTT WILSON: Oh, it wasn't?
J COLE: No, I put that
out four months
after I got my deal.
We were supposed to
put that out.
E was bugging the ***
out of me every--
he knows it, too.
He was like, yo, we need to
chop this "Warm Up," I'm
telling you.
We didn't have no deal.
He goes, I'm telling
you, it's time.
I'm like, I just
had a feeling.
I always follow my gut feelings,
even with not going
with January 28.
I always just try to
follow my gut.
If there's a strange feeling, I
hold back, and I always know
there's a reason for
holding back.
But anyways, we put this
*** out in June.
How did I know?
I don't know.
Twitter was around.
I could see the comments
on the blog.
I could see people
reaching out.
I could see the reviews.
And then we hit the road,
and there was
people like, yo, J Cole.
I would go places, and people
would know who I am when I'm
in the Honda Civic.
I'm like, yo.
ELLIOTT WILSON: That's me, the
rap star in my Honda Civic.
J COLE: Yeah, this
is embarrassing.
So I knew it was
have an impact.
But it was impacting
us just as a team.
Like, we would listen and be
like, oh man, they're going to
*** with this.
Nobody's saying these
things, and nobody's
rapping like this.
ELLIOTT WILSON: And you're
proud of those mix tapes.
Remember you said that with
"Born Sinner," you said that
you don't think it's a challenge
to top "Sideline
Story," but it is challenge to
top "The Warm Up" and "Friday
Night Lights."
J COLE: Yeah, no doubt.
Of course.
And I don't even think it's
about topping them, because
this is how it is.
First of all, with
"Born Sinner," I
don't think it's close.
Like as a project, I know.
Even with "Warm Up" and "Friday
Night Lights," as
legendary as we think those
are, and they going to be
classics. and they are classics,
but the world is
going to know about them just
like "Reasonable Doubt."
Not comparing, but there was
people that knew about
"Reasonable Doubt," and other
*** was like, what, who,
Jay-Z, who is that?
Or whatever.
But my point-- with the ***
was your question.
I just forgot my whole--
ELLIOTT WILSON: No, no.
How "Born Sinner" is the
challenge to top.
Because you look at your mixed
tapes as a whole discography.
J COLE: OK, yeah.
So talking about a "Reasonable
Doubt"--
that's a perfect example.
I don't think it's about trying
to top those, because
to these people-- some of
these people in here--
you're not going to be able to
recreate that moment when you
heard somebody saying this ***,
and it touched you, you
know what I mean?
That newness, you can't
get that back,
you know what I mean?
So there's people out there
that, in 1996--
ELLIOTT WILSON: Actually,
right out there.
J COLE: Yeah, no, this is
a different analogy.
There's people out there in
'96 that heard "Reasonable
Doubt." I'm not one of them.
I was a Pac fanatic.
I would never even listen to
Jay-Z because I just heard Pac
say, *** Jay-Z. And I was like,
I wouldn't even listen.
But there's people out there
that heard "Reasonable Doubt,"
and was like, oh my god.
What the *** is this, right?
So there's a very small
amount of people.
Then he drops "Volume 1," they
hear "Sunshine." They like,
damn, Jay, I been riding with
you, you got me out here
promoting this ***.
***, man.
But he's still nice, though.
***, check out this other
*** on the album.
Then he drops "Hard Knock
Life," and they
like, I told you why.
That's my ***.
And you don't even know about
"Reasonable Doubt." So they
going hard, right?
Then, couple albums later,
he's just killing it.
He's on top of the game.
And they feel like, yo, I
been there from day one.
Then, he drops "Blueprint," so
with *** like me-- which I
respect "Reasonable
Doubt," and I know
it's *** amazing.
I listen to that album,
and my mind is blown.
But for me, as a hip hop fan,
and my experience--
ELLIOTT WILSON: Of your era.
J COLE: Of my era, "Blueprint
is like, oh my god.
So I'm one of the kids
like, yo, this is
the best *** ever.
Now you got a "Reasonable Doubt"
fan like, yeah, this
*** is amazing, but you don't
even know about "Reasonable
Doubt," though.
So to that "Reasonable Doubt"
fan, because of that moment it
was in, "Blueprint could never
be above "Reasonable Doubt."
So I say all that to say--
ELLIOTT WILSON: "Born
Sinner" is the
"Blueprint" in this analogy.
J COLE: Not even saying it's the
"Blueprint," I'm just say,
I'm not trying to top "Warm Up"
or "Friday Night Lights,"
because I could never recreate
that moment or beat that
moment for the people--
I'm one of them-- that
was attached to it.
But I'm going to make
new classics,
you know what I mean?
And like, new legendary ***.