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>> HELLO. AND WELCOME TO TALKING POINTS.
I'M DAVE KELLY, DIRECTOR OF ADVANCED MEDIA PRODUCTION
AT CAL STATE LONG BEACH.
TODAY WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE CALIFORNIA CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM.
AND A UNIVERSITY COURSE
WHICH TAKES STUDENTS INSIDE CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTIONS
AS PART OF THE CLASSWORK.
MY GUEST TODAY IS DR. CONNIE IRELAND.
DR. IRELAND IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR
OF CRIMINOLOGY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
WELCOME CONNIE AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON TALKING POINTS.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
>> WELL THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS TOPIC
THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY.
ANY TIME WE TALK ABOUT ISSUES INVOLVING PUBLIC SAFETY,
IT'S A SERIOUS ISSUE.
FIRST, LET'S TALK ABOUT A PROBLEM THAT'S BEEN
IN THE NEWS A LOT LATELY HERE IN CALIFORNIA, AND THAT IS THE FACT
THAT OUR CALIFORNIA PRISONS ARE SEVERELY OVERCROWDED.
IN FACT CALIFORNIA IS CURRENTLY
UNDER A FEDERAL JUDICIAL RULING REQUIRING THE STATE
TO REDUCE THE PRISON POPULATION.
ACCORDING TO SOME ESTIMATES,
WE'RE NOW AT AT LEAST 144 PERCENT OF CAPACITY.
THE JUDICIAL RULING INDICATES THAT WE NEED TO GET DOWN TO
ABOUT ONLY 137 AND A HALF PERCENT.
I SAY ONLY 137 AND A HALF PERCENT BECAUSE EVEN IF WE GET
DOWN TO THAT LEVEL AND MEET THAT MANDATE,
WE'LL STILL HAVE 110,000 PRISONERS IN A SYSTEM HOUSED
IN A SYSTEM THAT WAS ONLY BUILT TO HANDLE ABOUT 80,000.
SO THE FIRST QUESTION IS, HOW DID CALIFORNIA GET TO THIS PLACE
WHERE WE HAVE THIS OVERCROWDING PROBLEM IN OUR PRISONS?
AND WHY HAS IT BECOME SUCH A CHRONIC PROBLEM?
>> WELL, I WANT TO BACK UP FOR A SECOND.
IT MAY SOUND SHOCKING TO SOME THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET
DOWN TO A LEVEL OF 137 PERCENT.
BUT WE WERE UP TO NEARLY 200 PERCENT.
WE HAD MORE THAN 180,000 INMATES AT ONE POINT.
SO WE'RE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
AND THE PROBLEM STARTED A COUPLE DECADES AGO.
AND WE'VE BEEN ON A BENT THAT WAS REALLY TOUGH ON CRIME.
AND WE PASSED ONE LAW AFTER ANOTHER
TO INCLUDE MORE TYPES OF CRIMES.
UNDER THREE STRIKES LAWS WE PASSED THE HARSHEST THREE
STRIKES LAWS IN THE COUNTRY HERE IN OUR STATE.
AND WE WERE REALLY KIND OF HELL-BENT FOR A COUPLE
OF DECADES ON INCARCERATING MORE AND MORE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE.
>> AND WHY WAS THE THREE STRIKES PROPOSITION THAT WAS PASSED BACK
IN 1994, I GUESS PEOPLE WOULD SAY WELL I GUESS
THAT MEANS WE'RE KEEPING PEOPLE IN PRISON LONGER,
ESPECIALLY THE HARDENED FELONS.
AND MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA
IF WE KEEP PEOPLE WHO ARE PRONE TO CRIMINALITY IN PRISON LONGER,
THAT ADDS TO A SENSE OF SECURITY AND PUBLIC SAFETY.
BUT I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER SIDE TO THAT STORY
LIKE MOST ISSUES IN LIFE.
WHAT IS THE OTHER SIDE TO THE THREE STRIKES STORY?
>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, ON THE ONE HAND WE'RE KIND OF RIGHT.
AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE PRISONS.
I'M A, YOU KNOW, A CRIMINOLOGIST THAT STUDIES PRISONS.
I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT THING.
BUT I THINK PRISONS SHOULD BE FOR THE PEOPLE WE'RE AFRAID OF,
AND NOT THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE MAD AT.
FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES WE FOCUSED ON THE LATTER.
AND WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE INCREASED THE TYPES OF CRIMES
FOR WHICH ONE COULD DO A LONG PRISON TERM.
AND WE'VE INCREASED THE TIME THAT YOU SPEND THERE.
SO WE'RE SEEING MORE DRUG OFFENDERS INCARCERATED,
PEOPLE WITH PETTY CRIMES INCARCERATED.
AND IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE CRIMINOLOGY
AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE IS ONE
OF THE FEW SCIENCES THAT'S REALLY DRIVEN BY PUBLIC OPINION.
YOU DON'T SEE THIS IN MEDICINE WHERE THE PUBLIC VOTES
FOR THE BEST CANCER TREATMENT.
BUT IN CRIMINOLOGY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND PUBLIC SAFETY,
THE PUBLIC'S KNEE JERK REACTION TO FEAR AND PERCEIVED FEAR
OF CRIME REALLY HAS DRIVEN THE SYSTEM.
>> AND WOULD IT BE NATURAL TO BE OVERLY CAUTIOUS IN THIS AREA?
>> YEAH TO SOME EXTENT ABSOLUTELY.
YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVE AN OFFENDER WHO HAS REPEATED VIOLENT CRIMES
OR *** OFFENSES, ABSOLUTELY.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS WE'VE OVERREACHED A BIT.
THE UMBRELLA FOR THREE STRIKES AND SOME OF THE OTHER LAWS
IN CALIFORNIA HAS REALLY GONE BEYOND THOSE SCARY OFFENDERS
WHO PREY ON OUR CHILDREN INTO, YOU KNOW, MORE MINOR CRIMES.
CRIMES THAT AFFECT, YOU KNOW,
YOUR FRIENDS AND MINE IF YOU WILL.
>> AND THERE'VE BEEN SOME RATHER INFAMOUS CASES IN THE MEDIA
OF WHERE A THIRD STRIKE WAS SOMEONE STEALING A PAIR
OF GLOVES FROM A HARDWARE STORE.
A THIRD STRIKE WAS STEALING A PIZZA FROM A RESTAURANT.
THESE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WOULD NORMALLY BE
CONSIDERED SHOPLIFTING.
AND THESE WERE THE CRIMES THAT SOMEONE THEN FOUND THEMSELVES
IN JAIL FOR AN EXTRA 25 YEARS.
BECAUSE OF THOSE PARTICULAR HIGH-PROFILE CASES
THAT WE'VE READ ABOUT, A PROPOSITION WAS RECENTLY PASSED
IN CALIFORNIA WHEREBY JUDGES WOULD HAVE MORE DISCRETION
ON THAT THIRD STRIKE.
WILL THAT HELP?
GIVING THE JUDGES MORE DISCRETION?
>> I THINK IT'LL HELP SOME.
WE'VE HAD A FEW BOUTS WHERE WE'VE REVISED THREE STRIKES
IN CALIFORNIA FROM ITS ORIGINAL DRACONIAN STANCE.
AND I THINK IT'LL HELP SOME.
BUT WE'RE NOW PLACING DISCRETION IN THE HANDS OF JUDGES,
MANY OF WHOM ARE ELECTED,
TO GO SOFT ON CRIME TO FIX THE PROBLEM.
AND THAT'S A TALL ORDER, EXPECTING A JUDGE TO GO SOFT
ON CRIME TO FIX A PROBLEM THAT WE'VE CREATED
OVER A COUPLE OF DECADES.
>> ALRIGHT, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OVERCROWDING PROBLEM
IN THE PRISONS.
>> IT'S A PROBLEM FOR THE PRISONS
BECAUSE IT AFFECTS THE WAY THAT INSTITUTIONS ARE RUN.
AND IF I GET NOTHING MORE ACROSS IN THIS INTERVIEW,
I WANT TO MAKE THREE POINTS.
AND THIS IS WHY THE PUBLIC SHOULD CARE ALSO.
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN PRISONS TODAY IS ADDICTION.
ABOUT 75 PERCENT OF THEM ARE ADDICTED.
ABOUT 93 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE INCARCERATED TODAY WILL COME
HOME SOMEDAY, AND ABOUT TWO-THIRDS WILL GO BACK.
SO THIS IS REALLY A REVOLVING DOOR.
IT'S A PIPELINE IF YOU WILL OF OFFENDERS.
SO WHEN THEY'RE INCARCERATED AT SUCH HIGH NUMBERS
WHERE THEY'RE DOUBLE AND TRIPLED CELLED,
THAT MEANS PROGRAMMING GOES AWAY.
THAT MEANS THAT DRUG REHAB GOES AWAY.
EDUCATION, VOCATIONAL TREATMENT GOES AWAY.
AND THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY WAREHOUSED, WHICH IS A HARD TYPE
OF CONFINEMENT FOR THE INMATE WHO'S GOING TO COME HOME ANYWAY.
IT TENDS TO MAKE THEM MORE AGGRESSIVE.
IT DOESN'T GIVE THEM SKILLS TO SUCCEED.
AND THEY'RE COMING HOME.
AND IT MAKES A KIND OF AN UNPLEASANT WORKING ENVIRONMENT
AS WELL FOR THE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS AS WELL WHO THEN HAVE
TO DEAL WITH THIS UNRULY, YOU KNOW, GROUP OF OFFENDERS.
AND THEY ARE JUST PROCESSING PEOPLE THROUGH THIS,
LIKE I SAID, THIS PIPELINE.
>> SO YOU MENTIONED THE RECIDIVISM RATE,
WHICH IS QUITE HIGH IN CALIFORNIA.
THERE ARE ESTIMATES THAT INDICATE THAT RECIDIVISM IS
ABOUT 64 PERCENT WITHIN THREE YEARS.
WHAT THAT MEANS THAT AN INMATE WHO IS RELEASED WILL THEN
WITHIN THREE YEARS COMMIT ANOTHER CRIME,
WHICH COULD RESULT IN PROSECUTION AND RISK
OF ADDITIONAL INCARCERATION.
HOW DO WE GET THAT VERY HIGH RECIDIVISM RATE DOWN?
>> IT'S REALLY TOUGH.
AND PART OF RECIDIVISM RATE IS DUE TO OUR PENCHANT
FOR INCARCERATION IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES.
SO IT'S A TALL ORDER BECAUSE YOU'RE ASKING US
TO FIX A PROBLEM THAT'S TAKEN US 25 YEARS TO CREATE.
AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIG SOLUTIONS WOULD BE
REHABILITATION PROGRAMS, DRUG TREATMENT,
ALCOHOL TREATMENT PROGRAMS, WHICH WE HAVE DONE,
AND THEN WE'VE PULLED BACK FROM.
AND THEN WE'VE OFFERED IT AGAIN.
AND THEN ALSO, VOCATIONAL TRAINING, EDUCATIONAL TRAINING
AND VOCATIONAL TRAINING.
AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE OFFENDERS
TO HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF LIFE WHEN WE GET BACK.
THERE ARE SO MANY BARRIERS TO REENTRY THAT I'M NOT
AT ALL SURPRISED THAT THE RECIDIVISM RATE IS
AS HIGH AS IT IS.
>> AND I KNOW THAT IN YOUR RESEARCH YOU EXPLORE
THE COMPONENTS.
I'M READING FROM YOUR BIO NOW, AND IT SAYS THAT YOU
LIKE TO EXPLORE THE COMPONENTS OF PRISON AND PAROLE,
ESPECIALLY THOSE THINGS THAT LEAD TO GREATER PAROLEE SUCCESS
WHEN THEY RETURN HOME FROM PRISON,
WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
GO INTO THAT INTO A LITTLE MORE DETAIL.
WHAT WILL TRULY HELP US REDUCE THAT RECIDIVISM RATE?
>> OPPORTUNITIES.
AND I THINK ACCEPTANCE, A PLACE FOR THEM.
OFTENTIMES INMATES COME HOME WITH HIGH HOPES
THAT THEIR LIVES WILL BE DIFFERENT, THAT THEY'RE GOING
TO BE ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW.
THEY'RE GOING TO STAY OUT OF TROUBLE.
BUT THE REALITY IS WHEN THEY GET HOME, THEY HAVE BILLS TO PAY.
THEY HAVE MOUTHS TO FEED.
AND THERE AREN'T OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM TO SUCCEED.
AND IT'S REALLY EASY FOR THEM TO FALL BACK INTO THE LIFESTYLE
THAT GOT THEM THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I WAS WORKING WITH ONE DRUG REHAB PROGRAM FOR A PERIOD.
THEY WERE TREATING SPECIFICALLY WOMEN WITH ADDICTION PROBLEMS.
WOMEN WHO HAD BEEN TO PRISON AND WERE COMING HOME
WITH ADDICTION PROBLEMS.
AND AT THAT FACILITY, IF A WOMAN FOUND ANY PART TIME JOB
THAT SHE WOULD GRADUATE.
AND THE DIRECTOR PULLED ME ASIDE AT ONE POINT AND SAID, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE PULLING THE WOOL OVER THESE WOMEN'S EYES.
SHE'S MAKING NINE BUCKS AND HOUR AT, YOU KNOW,
A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT.
THERE'S NO WAY SHE CAN SUPPORT HER THREE KIDS.
SHE'S GOING TO BE BACK IN IN UNDER A MONTH.
AND THAT'S THE PLIGHT OF MANY OF THEM.
SO IF WE DON'T PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES AND INFRASTRUCTURE
IN OUR INNER CITIES, IT'S GOING TO BE A TALL ORDER TO FIX IT.
>> SO THIS IS REALLY A SOCIETAL PROBLEM.
IT'S NOT JUST THE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM.
IT'S SOCIETY IN GENERAL, AND THAT'S VERY COMPLICATED.
>> IT'S VERY COMPLICATED.
YES.
>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT DRUG ADDICTION AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE
AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO CRIME IN CALIFORNIA.
AND IF ONE TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE, THE PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED
WITH ADDICTION AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE, AND THE DESIRE
BY INDIVIDUALS TO COME UP WITH MONEY TO BUY THE NEXT FIX,
OR IF YOU TALK ABOUT DISTRIBUTION OF DRUGS
OR TURF BATTLES OVER DRUGS AND SO ON, IF YOU PUT ALL
OF THAT TOGETHER, WOULD IT BE SAFE TO SAY THAT SOMETHING
LIKE 75 PERCENT OF ALL CRIME IS IN SOME WAY RELATED
TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE OR DRUGS?
>> I'D SAY THAT WOULD BE A FAIR ASSESSMENT.
AND THERE'S TWO PATHWAYS, AND YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MANY MORE.
BUT THE TWO PATHWAYS I'M GOING TO DESCRIBE
AND KIND OF ILLUSTRATE THAT.
ONE IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE OPPORTUNITY, IF YOU DON'T HAVE,
YOU KNOW, CONNECTIONS IN YOUR FAMILY BECAUSE ALL
OF THE ADULT MALES ARE INCARCERATED, AND YOUR BROTHERS
AND COUSINS AND UNCLES ARE INVOLVED IN GANGS,
THE ONE OPPORTUNITY THAT APPEARS QUITE LUCRATIVE IS SALES
OF DRUGS.
MANUFACTURE, TRANSPORTATION, SALES OF DRUGS, STREET CRIME.
AND THAT'S ONE WAY THAT, YOU KNOW,
CERTAIN GROUPS CAN SURVIVE.
AND THAT TYPE OF INVOLVEMENT
IN THE DRUG TRANSACTIONS LEADS TO PRISON.
ANOTHER IS FOR SOME PEOPLE ADDICTION IS
ABOUT COVERING PAIN, COVERING TRAUMA.
AND THEY USE SUBSTANCES TO NUMB THAT.
AND THAT LEADS TO ANOTHER PATH TO PRISON THROUGH, YOU KNOW,
STREET WORK, PROSTITUTION, USING, STEALING THINGS
TO GET THEIR NEXT FIX,
AND THAT'S ANOTHER PATH THAT LEADS TO PRISON.
BOTH OF THEM, YOU KNOW, IS I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY ACCOUNT
FOR THE BULK OF OUR CRIME PROBLEM IN THIS STATE.
>> IT WOULD OCCUR TO ME THAT WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING
ABOUT THE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM PER SE, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT WORKING IN SOCIETY WHEN CHILDREN ARE VERY YOUNG
SO THAT THEY DON'T ENTER THAT PATHWAY.
AND THAT COULD TAKE A GENERATION TO CORRECT THAT PROBLEM.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
AND WHAT WE'VE CREATED HERE IS KIND
OF A MONSTROUS PROBLEM TO RESOLVE.
BUT I THINK WE CAN RESOLVE IT.
BUT I WANT TO BACK, BACK UP FOR A MOMENT.
FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS WE'VE BEEN REALLY TOUGH ON CRIME
AND HAVE INCARCERATED MORE AND MORE PEOPLE
TO PUTTING OUR PRISONS AT ABOUT TWICE THE RATE OF CAPACITY.
TWO HUNDRED PERCENT OF CAPACITY.
WHICH HAS LEFT SOME PEOPLE, INNER CITY PEOPLE WITH THE BULK
OF THE ADULT MALES UNDER SOME FORM
OF CORRECTIONAL SUPERVISION.
THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.
>> SO THE ROLE MODELS AREN'T THERE AS YOU INDICATED.
>> THE ROLE MODELS AREN'T THERE.
AND FOR SOME CHILDREN GROWING UP IN THOSE COMMUNITIES,
THEY HAVE GREATER EXPECTATION, GREATER HOPE IF YOU WILL,
OF GOING TO PRISON THAN THEY DO GOING TO COLLEGE.
AND THAT'S SOBERING.
>> AND THAT'S SAD.
AND I KNOW THAT THIS, THE NUMBERS WOULD INDICATE
THAT IT COSTS 50 OR $60,000 A YEAR TO INCARCERATE SOMEONE,
WHICH IS ABOUT THE SAME RATE THAT IT COSTS TO GO TO STANFORD.
>> RIGHT.
>> SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT EQUATION AS WELL
AND WHERE OUR MONEY IS BEING SPENT.
WHICH BRINGS UP ANOTHER POINT.
IT IS CALLED THE CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.
AND CORRECTION, THE TERM CORRECTION IMPLIES
THAT WE'RE CORRECTING BEHAVIOR OR WE'RE CORRECTING THE MINDSET
OF PEOPLE THAT COMMIT CRIMES WHO END UP BEING INCARCERATED.
ARE WE DOING THAT TODAY?
ARE WE TRULY OFFERING
THAT CORRECTIONAL SUPPORT THAT WE SHOULD BE?
>> I'LL GO ONE BETTER.
ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO THEY ADDED THE WORD REHABILITATION
TO OUR STATE SYSTEM.
SO IT'S NOW THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION.
AND I THINK WE'VE MADE SOME PROGRESS.
BUT AGAIN, OUR CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM IS VERY SENSITIVE
TO THE MOOD OF THE PUBLIC.
AND WE GET SCARED ABOUT CRIME.
AND WE PASS LAWS TO, YOU KNOW, CHANGE THE WAY WE DO IT.
AND SO I DON'T THINK WE'VE GIVEN ANYTHING A LONG ENOUGH PERIOD
OF TIME TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
SO WE DO HAVE SOME REHABILITATION PROGRAMS
IN PRISON.
THEY'RE LIMITED.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE ONE PRISON OUT IN NORCO,
THE CALIFORNIA REHABILITATION CENTER, WHICH WAS DESIGNATED
AS A DRUG TREATMENT FACILITY.
AND WE HAD OUR CIVIL ADDICT POPULATION THERE FOR MANY YEARS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY DID BEST.
AND WHEN I WAS THERE LAST, THEY HAD ONE.
THEY HAD ONE, IT'S CALLED AN N NUMBER.
IT'S A CIVIL ADDICT FOR DRUG TREATMENT N1.
>> WE HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK RIGHT NOW.
BUT WE'LL BE BACK IN A MOMENT.
AND WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT CONNIE'S CLASS
WHERE SHE TAKES STUDENTS INSIDE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES
TO GET A LOOK AT WHAT THE REALITIES ARE
IN TODAY'S CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM.
STAY WITH US.
>> YOU'VE ALWAYS MADE SURE I BRUSH MY TEETH.
>> YOU TOLD ME THAT SMART WAS COOL.
>> YOU ALWAYS TOLD ME TO DREAM BIG.
>> TO ALL OF THOSE PARENTS WHO TOOK THE TIME
TO MAKE RAISING THEIR CHILDREN THEIR MOST IMPORTANT JOB,
WE'D LIKE TO SAY.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, THANKS MOM AND DAD.
>> THIS MESSAGE IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE US AIR FORCE.
>> THEY SAID I WOULD DIE.
>> MY DOCTOR TOLD ME I HAD ALS.
>> THEY SAID I WOULDN'T LIVE TO SEE MY KIDS GROW UP.
>> BUT THEIR DOCTORS WERE WRONG.
MULTIFOCAL MOTOR NEUROPATHY REFERRED TO AS MMN,
IS A RARE DISORDER THAT PROGRESSIVELY WEAKENS MUSCLE
IN THE EXTREMITIES, AND IS OFTEN MISTAKEN
FOR OTHER SERIOUS NEUROPATHIES,
AS WELL AS THE ULTIMATELY FATAL CONDITION KNOWN AS ALS
OR LOU GEHRIG'S DISEASE.
BUT UNLIKE THOSE DISORDERS, MMN AFFECTS ONLY LOWER MOTOR NERVES
AND HAS NO SENSORY INVOLVEMENT.
SYMPTOMS SEEM TO BE ASYMMETRIC AND CHARACTERIZED BY WEAKNESS,
CRAMPING, TWITCHING, OR MUSCLE ATROPHY,
USUALLY BEGINNING IN THE HANDS.
DISEASE PROGRESSION DEPENDS ON THE LENGTH
OF TIME THE PATIENT REMAINS
WITHOUT THE CORRECT MMN DIAGNOSIS.
WITH EARLY DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT,
MOST MMN PATIENTS CONTINUE DOING THE THINGS THEY ENJOY.
>> COOKING.
>> GARDENING.
>> SPENDING TIME WITH MY FAMILY.
>> FOR MORE INFORMATION, PLEASE VISIT THESE WEBSITES.
>> WELCOME BACK TO TALKING POINTS.
I'M DAVE KELLY.
MY GUEST TODAY IS DR. CONNIE IRELAND.
AND WE'RE ALSO JOINED BY ONE OF THE STUDENTS FROM HER CLASS.
HE IS TREVOR LARSON.
HE IS A SENIOR AT CAL STATE LONG BEACH.
HE WILL RECEIVE A BACHELOR OF ARTS IN SOCIOLOGY.
AND HE ALSO HAS A MINOR IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
HE'S CURRENTLY WORKING AS A PROGRAMMER
FOR COMMUNITY AQUATICS FOR CHILDREN AT LONG BEACH.
AND HE HOPES TO PURSUE A CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
TREVOR THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> GOOD TO BE HERE.
>> AND CONNIE, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CLASS
WHERE YOU TAKE STUDENTS LIKE TREVOR
INTO CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTIONS IN CALIFORNIA.
THE COURSE IS AFFECTIONATELY REFERRED TO AS JAILS ON WHEELS.
EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS.
>> THE CLASS IS TECHNICALLY CALLED CORRECTIONAL
ENVIRONMENTS, BUT IT'S LOVINGLY CALLED JAILS ON WHEELS.
AND IT'S A CLASS WHERE I TAKE ABOUT 20 STUDENTS
THROUGH THE CALIFORNIA PRISON SYSTEM.
WE SPEND TWO WEEKS TOURING A VARIETY OF LOCAL, COUNTY, STATE,
AND FEDERAL INSTITUTIONS, INCLUDING PRISONS AND JAILS
AND LOCKUPS AND YOUTH PROGRAMS AND WOMEN'S PROGRAMS.
AND IT'S PRETTY RAW.
WE SPEND TWO WEEKS INSIDE THE BARS.
WE WALK AMONG INMATES.
WE GO TO MENTAL HEALTH UNITS.
AND WE SEE IT ALL.
>> AND TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT THE PREPARATION
FOR THE STUDENTS BEFORE THEY GO ON THIS TRIP.
WHAT DO YOU TELL THEM TO PREPARE THEM IN ADVANCE?
>> I TELL THEM TO PREPARE ANY, PREPARE FOR ANYTHING.
I MEAN, WE COULD BE LOCKED INSIDE AN INSTITUTION.
THE PAPERWORK THEY NEED
TO COMPLETE SAYS ALL INSTITUTIONS HAVE A NO-HOSTAGE
POLICY, SO IT IS POSSIBLE
THAT WE COULD BE INSIDE AN INSTITUTION
WHERE THERE IS A RIOT OR SOME KIND OF ALTERCATION
WHERE WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE RESCUED.
AND WE'RE WALKING, YOU KNOW,
SHOULDER-TO-SHOULDER WITH INMATES.
THEY SEE, WE'VE BEEN INSIDE
WHEN THERE HAVE BEEN FIGHTS OR LOCKDOWNS.
WE GO TO MENTAL HEALTH UNITS WHERE INMATES ARE SOMETIMES,
YOU KNOW, PRETTY BAD SHAPE.
NAKED WRITING IN THEIR OWN FECES.
IT'S PRETTY RAW.
>> AND WHEN YOU GIVE THAT DISCLAIMER TO STUDENTS
IN ADVANCE, THEY'RE STILL GUNG HO?
>> THEY'RE STILL GUNG HO.
>> AND TREVOR WAS ONE OF THE STUDENTS IN A RECENT COURSE.
TREVOR, I WANT TO GET YOUR REACTION
TO WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED ALONG THE WAY.
FIRST, WHAT WAS YOUR ANTICIPATED VIEW OF WHAT THIS WOULD BE LIKE?
>> MY INITIAL IMPRESSION OF THE CLASS WAS FEAR.
I WAS A LITTLE INTIMIDATED TO GO
INTO THESE CORRECTIONAL ENVIRONMENTS,
MOSTLY BECAUSE YOU SIT THERE IN A CLASSROOM
WHERE IT'S A SAFE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT
AND EVERYTHING'S PREDICTABLE AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
BUT THEN WHEN YOU GO INTO A PRISON OR A JAIL
WHERE YOU'RE NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
AND YOU'RE TOLD THAT, AND YOU SIGN YOUR LIFE AWAY
ON THAT WAIVER FORM, IT'S A LITTLE INTIMIDATING.
SO, AT FIRST I WAS SCARED, BUT YOU START TO GET INTO IT,
AND YOU START TO FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE AS YOU GO ON.
>> AND AFTER YOU HAD THIS EXPERIENCE, TREVOR,
DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR YOU, AND HOW HAS IT CHANGED YOU?
>> THE EXPERIENCE WAS VERY EYE-OPENING.
IT REALLY TAUGHT ME WHAT THE SYSTEM WAS LIKE AS OPPOSED
TO LEARNING IT IN THE CLASSROOM.
SO YOU GO IN THERE, YOU GET
TO ACTUALLY SEE HOW THESE INMATES LIVE THEIR LIVES.
AND IT REALLY SHOWED ME WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO CHANGE
IN THE SYSTEM AND WHAT THE SYSTEM HAS DONE TO KIND