Unexplained - Ghosts of Glastonbury

Whenever we look at the past, whether it's through history or archaeology, there always has to be a logical, sensible reason why everything happened. But sometimes, you come across an event, where however hard you try, you can't find a normal, sensible reason for it. Which is why we call those events the paranormal. I'm gonna look at these phenomena in a reopen-minded way to see if I can find out what the truth actually is. I'm working with Becky McCall who is a science journalist. She's very smart, very skeptical, which will probably help because we're investigating one of the most controversial archaeological claims of the 20th century. The guy was called Bligh Bond. He was the most successful archaeologist at Glastonbury Abbey at the time of the 20th century. He was coming up with stretches, he was coming up with chapels. It was almost as though he knew where to look for the stuff that he was finding. And at the height of his success, he announced the reason that he'd been able to find all this stuff was because he'd been in some kind of psychic communication with a monk who had died 400 years previously, who was showing him where to dig. Glastonbury Abbey is considered to be one of the most important archaeological sites in Britain. It's got a Christian history stretching back 2,000 years and it's the legendary burial place of King Arthur. But in the 16th century, the magnificent Abbey was ransacked during Henry VIII's dissolution of the monasteries and abandoned. Despite its historical significance, most of what we know about the archaeology of the building is down to one man, Frederick Bligh Bond, an expert in church design and an eminent architect. The Church of England appointed him director of excavations at Glastonbury Abbey in 1908. What he discovered was stunning. But can there be any truth to Bligh Bond's claims that his success was down to dead monks telling him where to dig. This is it, Abbey house. This is as gothic as it gets. It certainly is, but if you want to know more about Frederick Bligh Bond, this is the place to start. So tell me what was his name again, this guy. Tim Hopkinson-Ball. Probably knows more about Bligh Bond. So you've got this very successful, respectable antiquarian and yet he announces that he's made the archaeological discoveries that he has because he's been communicating with the monk from the Middle Ages. Yes. Well, I got to know a gentleman by the name of Captain John Allan Bartlett who was also a West Country antiquary. And Bartlett discovered, quite accidentally about 1,900, that he could produce something called automatic writing. And this is what interested Bligh. Automatic writing, where does this come from? What is it? With automatic writing what happens is that either one or both hands start to literally write automatically by themselves. Where are the words coming from? A very good question. When you actually read what's been written, you often meet with personalities. Obviously, it's not you, it's not the conscious you producing the writing, but somebody, something else is. So essentially what we're talking about is writing on a page which is voices from another time. Yes, in short. Do you have any of that writing? Indeed, I do. Would you like to see some? Yeah. All right. These are all Bartlett's original automatic writings that were produced in 1970. As you can see, it's not very easy to read. Where did all this happen? A lot of the time it actually happened in Bond's offices, actually in Bristol. Working day would finish and then John and Bartlett would come into the office, Bligh would dismiss his staff and they'd go into a room and they'd sit down together at a table. Bartlett would take a pencil in his hand and Bond would put his hand on the back of Bartlett's and then Bartlett's hand would start writing vision-- As far as Bligh Bond was concerned, he wasn't skeptical about what was going on, was he? No, absolutely not. From before he started excavating here, Bond had developed a theory which he called the Magna Memoria, the great memory theory. And his idea was basically this: for the whole of our lives we accrue memories and when we die, these memory is going to a great cosmic librarial card index. So he was sort of tuning into the cosmic soup? Yes, yes. But which one would he would learn if he had to choose one or the other, automatic writing or good old orthodox methods? From his point of view, he can't actually be digging a trench and pulling things out of the ground. However, occasionally there would be problems or glitches which he couldn't explain conventionally, so he would-- well, automatic writing session giving him inspiration to get over the problem. Did it work? Were there occasions when the traditional methods failed and he used automatic writing and found something? Yes. And this is the classic case. We're actually standing in the ruins or the foundations of the Edgar chapel which is Bond's most spectacular find. For years, Bligh Bond's contemporaries had insisted there weren't any structures of the east end of the Abbey. But Bligh Bond was unconvinced. Asking for help during one of his automatic writing sessions, the personalities predicted that if he excavated Bligh Bond would find a chapel. We have here Bond's copies of the automatic writings. This is the great church. And here we have this great eastern extension. Second diagram was produced which again shows the small internal chapels and the great chapel to the east. So the scripts were clearly telling him there was a large eastern chapel. Deciding to trust the automatic writings, Bligh Bond sunk trenches and lo and behold, hit massive foundations and in a couple of weeks had uncovered this enormous forebay, late medieval chapel, huge great construction. So this, around here, was all discovered through automatic writing? Yes. But Bond wasn't only excavating here in 1908, he also made a quite fascinating discovery in the form of a grave. Where was the grave? Well, the grave we can place absolutely exactly, which is slap-*** here, just to the east of the high altar. The one end of it, Bond found a jumble of bones had been cut around and mixed up. So he speculated that perhaps these bones belonged to the last abbot of Glastonbury, Richard Whiting. Like many Catholic abbots in the Middle Ages, Whiting was wealthy and influential. But in 1539, King Henry VIII closed down his Abbey and stole its rituals. Whiting was dragged up Glastonbury Tor and he was hung, drawn and quartered. Four hundred years passed before Bligh Bond discovered the mysterious bones buried at the altar. So at this point, Bligh decided to turn to the automatic writings. And the personalities in the writings told him that these were indeed the bones of the martyr. "The martyr was he," they said. In other words, these bones did belong to Whiting and that after he'd been hung, drawn and quartered, the bones had been collected by the faithful and buried here in secret. Presumably he couldn't substantiate whether it was Whiting or not. Not at all. He did his best though. He took the bones out and showed them to a surgeon in Bristol. And the surgeon announced that the body that the bones came from had been cut about while the person was alive or shortly after death. And Bligh thought that the surgeon's pronouncement, the scripts and also the peculiarity and the position of the grave all pointed to the fact that these were indeed the last earthly remains of the blessed Richard Whiting. And they still survive today at Prinknash Abbey in Gloucestershire. They're still there? Indeed, they are. This is important, isn't it? We've now got a body, we've got an identification for that body and automatic writing has authenticated that identification and we know where those bones are. I think we need to go and see them. I think you're right. Bligh Bond was making astonishing finds which he said were the results of automatic writing. It claimed those bones belonged to Abbot Whiting. But is that true? I think we should put that to the test. But whatever went on during those automatic writing sessions, I do not fancy having again. So we're at the beginning of the 20th century here in Glastonbury. There's this man called Bligh Bond, the most successful archaeologist they've ever had here. He's pulling stuff out of Glastonbury Abbey that people didn't know existed. Then suddenly at the height of his fame, he announces he's been able do all this because he's been in communication with people from the Middle Ages by some psychic process called automatic writing. Now that is pretty weird, isn't it? It's very strange. But we have to examine the evidence. We have to find out did these writings really inform his work. Because there are the bones, aren't there? The bones that Bligh Bond found and through the automatic writing they were authenticated as belonging to Abbot Whiting in the 16th century. Well, I can go and see these things. Prinknash? Yeah, they're in Gloucestershire. You know the other thing that really interests me is this whole process of automatic writing. What is it? How does it work? I found a woman from the society of psychic research who does automatic writing, they call them automatists. And I think she's rather good. And I'm just hoping if I do some work with her, she'll get us a bit closer to the kind of experience that Bligh Bond himself would have been going through. His theory was that he was tapping into what he called the great memoria. When you die, your thoughts and feelings go into this card index in the sky. Does that echo with the kind of work that you do? Definitely, it really does. I call it the omniversal mind. Oh, you have a phrase for it? I have a phrase for it, too, yes. And I do feel that it is this energy field that surrounds us, that has all consciousness that ever has been within it and I do believe we can tap into it. Could I do it? I'm sure you could. So to be able to get you into a good space to do automatic writing, the first thing that we need to do is get you into the right side of your brain. What is it about the right side as compared with the left side of the brain? Well, the left side is the logical, the critical, the side that's almost Well, the left side is the logical, the critical, the side that's almost like the computer. Whereas, the right side is the side that interfaces with the omniversal mind, so we can find out things that are outside of our five senses, that are beyond. Outside the box, if you like, which is where automatic writing comes from, right? Yeah. So do you feel ready to have a go and actually write it? Yes, sure. The way that-- Sit back and be comfortable because if you feel that you're anxious or on duty then you're gonna have your left brain in there. Okay. So block off the right nostril, breathe in through the left nostril, which feeds the right brain. This is a yoga technique. And you'll start to get the sense that you're much more relaxed. Bring the energy up, then direct it to come down your arm and we'll have the pen ready to write. So bring it up with the breath and then down the arm and it will start to feel like it wants to go really quite fast. Now I'm just gonna hold it back and wind it up. Okay? Yeah. So let it drop again, now bring it up with the next breath, so bring it up with the breath. And down the arm and then we draw it back. Oh, yes. Okay, good, good. And then the breath again. Should I be watching what I'm drawing or not? Watch it from a distant place, yes. Do watch it because what we want is cooperation from the left brain. How does it feel? Fun. Good. So now go for making it smaller. Just intend, don't try. Intend to make the writing a little bit smaller. Now bigger. Now smaller. Okay, so there's a certain amount of control. It's just a laugh. Yeah, good, good. It's just a laugh, excellent. I'm off to Prinknash Abbey that's up in now Gloucestershire. I want to determine whether the bones found at Glastonbury really are those of Abbot Whiting. If they are, Bligh Bond's claims about automatic writing might be based on something solid. Hi. Is that Mary? Yes, Mary, hi. Becky. Now we have some bones here at the monastery. I just wondered if you could take a look at them and tell me if there's anything that might signify they came from somebody who was hung, drawn and quartered as this person was supposed to have been. What might you expect to see? Well, obviously cut marks that were made at the time of that person's death, so these are very sharp, quite shiny marks that suggest metal on wet bone. As opposed to bone that's been buried and broken in the ground. Now what you've come to see are the relics of blessed Richard Whiting. That's right. If that's okay, yeah. Okay. What we have to do is that they are slightly crumbly and so if we put them here, then we can at least save anything. Yes, of course. All right? So, okay. Now... Take out, up here. Okay, do you see it? So there's four there. This was arm then. You know about this? Yeah, I'm an archaeologist. Oh. And then in here there's more. So you have an arm bone there, big part of the upper arm. Yes. And the other bit, it is bit of a... See, what would have occurred at the execution on the Tor, the whole body would have been smashed up. And that's your thigh bone. That's a thigh bone. The right thigh bone. You have some good, substantial pieces of the body. So you have two arms, one leg bone, some fragments. Yes. And those two parts are not very crumbly. Yeah. Looks fresh--, doesn't it? Yes, it's slightly different to the other bones, I would say. It looks so lovely. Why is there such a change in color do you think, Mary? It's darker in places, it's lighter... All I can say is that this isn't-- this isn't human bone, this is an animal bone. These are human bones. And I would say that they appear to belong to the same person. They're all the same size. But this one is very different in color because it's a denser bone. Do you have a question? I could ask a question that's likely to be validated later on. I could ask, are those bones the bones of Abbot Whiting? Okay. Okay, so let's have a look. Look, lots of letters, X and Ps. What do you make of it? A top pig. A top pig. Top pig. Sounds like "Charlotte's Web," isn't it? A top pig. Were there any features that might suggest these bones belong to somebody who was hung, drawn and quartered, do you think? I didn't see any marks that suggest that they were cut marks. Only the breaks that were visible on the bones were the typical types of breaks that you expect to see in archaeological bone. But due to the preservation of the bones, the lack of the ends of the bones, I won't be able to tell you whether they were male or how old this individual was or even how old the bones themselves are. There were also a couple of bones within the relics that are animal bone, that aren't human bone at all. Of course, when Bligh Bond found these bones, he took them to a surgeon in Bristol and this surgeon said that they were the bones of a man who was probably killed in the mid 1500s, which is obviously very much in contrast to what you've said here. Based on modern anthropological methods, there's no way you would be able to come to those conclusions based on the remains that we've just seen. One of the things about the way Bligh Bond did it was that when he did it on his own, he really wasn't as good as this. But when Bartlett was doing it, he just had his hand over Bartlett's. He seemed to be able to write much more clearly. Now my left brain is saying, "Well, yeah, that's how frauds operate." But do you have a reason why it would work better when the two of them had their hands together like that? Yes, I think it's when two or more people come together with the same intention, the intention is magnified. All right. Will you put your hand on top of mine and promise me, looking into my eyes, promising me that you won't try and write a particular word or a particular sentence. No, because if I try, we'll be fighting. Yeah. So what's our intention? What was the name of the medieval monk that Bligh Bond and Bartlett were communicating with? Okay? Okay. It's angel. It's what, angel? A-N-G-E-L. Oh. You don't read that? What can you see? Wow. I can't see angel. There's something definitely there, isn't there? Hanson. Hanson. Winston. Oh, yeah. And that could be a first, Inman-- in-- Yeah. Emmen Winston. Emmen, Emmen, Emmen I have no idea what the name of this monk was or even if we know the name. So it's gonna be very interesting to find out. And there's a W-A-L there as well, double L. Wallding. Wallace, Wallace, Wallace. Oh. You can see, can't you, why Bligh Bond would have taken these and then written out much, much more neatly. Yes, yes, of course. You'd have to. This is the interpretation, isn't it? Emmen Winston, Angel. I have done automatic writing. And it is very strange. I asked what was the name of the monk. So you asked specific questions? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who Bligh Bond was talking to? We both agreed that that is angel. Right, okay. Wallace, this one. You see that? I can't make head or tail of it, to be honest. Oh, come on, try. E-M-M-A. Emma. Emma or Emmen, we weren't quite sure. Right, right. Something like Winston. Why don't you use some name from that era then? No idea. How have you been getting on? Well, I went to see bones. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah, the Abbot Whiting bones. I had an expert there, a bone specialist, an archeologist and the first thing she said was these bones are a mixture of animal and human. Oh, they were animal bones then. There was one animal bone there or maybe two animal bones. It was hard to tell. The other bones were from a human, that's for sure. It could've been Whiting in that sense, but, a big but, there were no cut marks in these bones. They weren't butchered. This man was supposed to be hung, drawn and quartered. No marks at all. Your osteoarchaeologist, she didn't, I suppose, speculate on what kind of animal bone it must be. No, I don't think she did. I don't recall she did. It's just that when I was doing the automatic writing and I asked whether or not it was the Abbot who those bones belonged to at Prinknash. Right. I got, and I'm sure even you will see this, "a top pig." In 1918, Bligh Bond published a book that was full of automatic writings. He believed that the messages were coming from medieval monks in their own language, Middle English. But whose words were really going down on the page? Bligh Bond's or the long dead monks? There's an expert at the University of Bristol who might be able to tell us whether what's in that book is really authentic Middle English. I've brought along a book that Bligh Bond wrote, called "The Gates of Remembrance." And within it there are a number of transcripts of these automatic writings. Right, I see. So this is what he received from the monks. Okay, yeah. This is interesting. We begin with a bit of Latin. Just a formula which is quite common, "Gloria in excelsis tibi Deo." Glory on high be to you, God, and then you get something that purports to the Middle English. "The time is near, dig well and those things which ye seek shall be given you." And then-- "Which ye seek," that sounds very Middle English. Yeah, that's all right that bit, but let me read on, right? "Shall be given you, but search carefully lest ye eradicate those things that be left for your guidance." Now that word "eradicate"... It's modern, isn't it? Banned to be. Even that word there I've not come across in Middle English, "guidance," I don't think that's a Middle English word. Let's have a look at some other passages here. There's a few touches that are interesting. Image. Image, spelt with a "Y." That's typical, is it? That's how you would spell it if you were medieval, yes, you wouldn't spell it with an "I." But look at this one here, "with a balcony," "with a balcony." That's an Italian word. Uh-huh. You'd say balcone in Italy and all those words come in a Renaissance period. Right and that's far too late for this, isn't it? Yeah. I've just not come across that in all my years of reading Middle English. Could it be that-- you know, this is an educated man, this guy Bond, he's an archeologist. He's interested in the period, so he's bound to write some medieval English text. It could be that if he wants this to look authentic, he could quite easily be slipping in a bit of the medieval English where he wants to with his knowledge. Yes, yes, yes, I bet there are just too many words that weren't in use in the medieval period. So do you think it's a fraud, this automatic writing? Uh, yes, yes, I'm afraid I cannot authenticate this as proper Middle English. Well, I felt like something happened during my session with June-Elleni. I'm not sure I know what that something was. We're gonna have a chat with an academic, a specialist in parapsychology. I'm sure he'll have a theory about what was going on. When I was doing that automatic writing yesterday, something happened and I wasn't faking it and I wasn't trying to make something happen. Well, I could believe that that is exactly how it felt. I would say you are actually producing that writing yourself. It's your own muscular movements, you're just not consciously aware of the fact that that's what you're doing. It's very interesting. You've got an idea in your mind and there's just this subtle twitching that might take place. One of the things that was fascinating about Bligh Bond was that when he worked with Bartlett with one hand over the other, the signals were much stronger. I think that's absolutely fascinating. The moment I heard about that, the first thing it made me think of was a phenomenon known as facilitated communication. I suspect that what you were getting was the information from Bligh Bond what actually it felt to him. It felt to both of them as it was coming from somewhere else. So it's not Bligh Bond putting his hand over and just going... That's right. Exactly, exactly. This is something about his passion for ensuring that the information comes across somehow in tiny ways, which means, that the hand moved. Yeah, and it's the same with the Ouija board phenomenon, if you've ever played around with a Ouija board which I never—not supposed to but I have done that and it feels as if the glass of the planchette is actually moving on its own. But I think again, it's a very interesting kind of social psychological phenomenon where everybody is just kind of moving it very, very slightly, so slightly that it's not even conscious that the actual movement is coming from within them and not from some external source. You would suspect that rather than being a fraud, subconsciously he moves his hand in order to create the answers that he wanted. That's exactly what I think is going on. It's plausible the writing is not really automatic, it's been subconsciously directed by the writer. Hello, is that Tony? Yeah. Oh, hi, Tony. It's David. I've just been doing a bit of research into some of the words that came up during the automatic writing session. Go on. Basically I found this old text, it's a kind of ancient history of Basically I found this old text, it's a kind of ancient history of Glastonbury. And it's written by a chap called William of Malmesbury in the medieval period. Yeah. Now according to this text, St. Patrick came back from Ireland in his old age and went to Glastonbury and he found in Glastonbury, 12 brothers living as hermits and one of them is called Wellace or Wallace. Oh, you're joking. I'm not, I 'm absolutely serious. How am I gonna make people believe that this is true? Now you know that June and I, a couple of days ago, asked Bligh Bond through the automatic writing to tell us the names of the monks who told him where to dig. And you've seen this, haven't you? Yes, I remember. This was the squiggle and alphabets. We interpreted these three names, Wallace, Emmen Winston and Angel. Yes. June, do you know the medieval document written by William of Malmesbury about Glastonbury? No. I swear to you nobody who was in that room when we were together had ever heard anything about it. And David's researcher phoned me up to tell me that in this medieval document it describes when St. Patrick, this is in the time just after the Romans have left Britain, he came to Glastonbury where he met 12 monks who were living there as hermits He took one of them up Glastonbury Tor and the name of the one he took up Glastonbury Tor was Wallace. They stay there for 3 months fasting and praying. During that time, Patrick saw a vision of God or Emmanuel, as he was also called at the time, and on the strength of that they decided where to locate the new Abbey of Glastonbury, dedicated to the Archangel Michael. I've gone all goosebumps. What are your first thoughts? Well, coming from my slightly skeptical position, the disbelief I suppose first of all. Why? Why as a scientist do you immediately say disbelief? Because there's got to be a lot of people called Wallace. And it just happens there was one called Wallace. Well, I'm sure if you looked throughout the text as well, there'll be more Wallaces and lots of other people, too. Perhaps it was a common name. Angel, well, yeah, we're talking about something ecclesiastical. I expect an angel's gonna pop up now and again. And your interpretation of this Emmen or Emma Winston is Emmanuel, so you've changed that to fit it. Let me come back to you on your criticisms. I can quite believe that I might subconsciously have written the word "angel" down because what we were talking about was spiritual things. I can see where I might put a squiggle down and interpret it as angel. Emmen Winston and Emmanuel, well, again, you know, looking at it again I could say that there's E-M-M-A-N-L-L, I could equally, as you say, I could be twisting it. Wallace, I don't buy your idea that that is just out of the ether. I would never in a million years have thought of a monk as being called Wallace down near the south coast. To me, Wallace is almost the epitome of the Scottish name. Wallace-- if Wallace is anything else, it's a shoe shop as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. No, I'll concede to that. If somebody said to me think of a name for a monk, I don't think Wallace would spring to mind. No, okay. So there is something eerie there, isn't there? There's certainly something a little bit eerie, yeah. No, I'd agree with you there. Certainly something that I wouldn't have expected, I'll go that far. Those names Angel and Wallace, a part of me still thinks they could be a coincidence. Bligh Bond produced thousands of scripts about Glastonbury. I wonder if there are any clues in the automatic writing that remain undiscovered and we can put to the test. Back in 1908, Bond was asking the personalities in the automatic writings about various different saints and chapels here in the Abbey. And he asked a question, "Can you tell us anything about the other saints in the church?" And the answer came, "Relics of ye saints rested by ye tomb of Johannes, the Kentishman, close by the great sacristy on the north side of the east end of Edgar church." Well, I could tell you more, but all have perished what more would ye." Now we know from surviving sources that Johanna Kent, Johannes, the Kentishman was buried in this area over here close to the high altar. And according to the automatic script, the great sacristy, so it's got to be quite a large building, is to the north of that tomb. Okay. In other words, it's got to be here in front of us. What's interesting is that nobody has ever excavated on this site, so we have no idea what's under the turf here. So as far as we know, there's nothing here, as far as we know, but the automatic writing suggest there should be. Exactly. Now in 1910, at an automatic writing session, Bond asked the question, "Was there anything built to the east of the Edgar chapel?" So east of the Edgar chapel, that's around here? Well, yeah, these foundations here we can see in front of us are the Edgar chapel. So it's this area here, was anything built here? They said to the east of the Edgar chapel there was a free-standing structure in this area where we are here. And Bond had no reason to suspect it, nothing in surviving historical records that said there was a building to the east and you wouldn't really expect to find one here. So just according to the writings there could actually be something here. They're quite clear. The writings are quite clear on the fact a building stood to the east of the Edgar chapel. Wow. Now that's quite exciting. I spoke to Tim Hopkinson-Ball again yesterday. Apparently according to the writings, there's a gatehouse east of the Edgar chapel. Now this gatehouse is mentioned in the writings and only in the writings. You mean we don't actually know whether it exists or not. It's just that the automatic writing tells us that they existed. So if we manage to get some geophysicists, the machines which would work out whether or not there were structures under the ground, we could find out whether Bligh Bond's automatic writing was actually ahead of what people knew at the time. Exactly. It provides us with the perfect opportunity to look at this in a It provides us with the perfect opportunity to look at this in a scientific way and actually see if proved--if there's anything in it. This man was convinced. Of course, if Bligh Bond had geophysics, he wouldn't have had to rely on automatic writing, but he didn't. So we want you to establish whether the archaeology that he predicted would be under the grass of the Abbey, really is there or whether it was just a fantasy on his part. Okay. Why would there be anything here? Well, according to historical records, there shouldn't be anything here, but according to the automatic writings, there's a gatehouse. We're at the north area? We're north of the altar, yeah. So if we find that there is a sacristy here, that's well on the way to confirming that there was something in that automatic writing. It does seem to me tragic that in 1919, Bligh Bond has the courage to tell the world about the automatic writing and immediately his reputation falls to pieces. He's banned from the Abbey and he dies a broken and lonely man. Well, it wasn't quite like that. What was really started in the early '20s, he became more and more possessive of the Abbey site. He thought it's his Abbey and the discoveries were his discoveries. So you're actually saying that it was nothing to do with his spiritual connections. Indeed, it was nothing to do with the automatic writing sessions or his idea about the magnum memoria or anything like that at all. But it is true, isn't it, that they took the key of Glastonbury Abbey away from him? Yes, it is true. He had his own passkey made to the Abbey and he was required to officially surrender it and it, of course, symbolically, if nothing else, marked the end of his connection with the Abbey. That is sad, isn't it? I guess this is it, make or break time for Bligh Bond and his dead monks. All done. Yep, all done. What have we got here? What do you think? This is it. All right. How long have you been waiting for this? Oh, quite some time. Would 10 years be a good guess? It was something like that. Okay. Right. Number one, you remember just beyond those stands there, we were looking up that grass in order to see if we could find Bligh Bond's gateway. Are you ready? There's the stones, beyond that is that slope, there's the hedge and beyond that the garden. So what does the blue mean, what does the red mean? Blue basically means there isn't anything under the ground there. Red means there could well be. Now so you might get quite excited about that, except, what that is, is that tree. And over here, these two intriguing little phenomena are probably tree bolts. So the sum total of gateway there is-- Is zero. Is zero, exactly. But that was only the first place of geophysics. The second place was along there, where we thought there might be a sacristy. This is the extension of that wall there, so there it's again. A sacristy is conspicuous by its absence, yeah. It's feel-- Well, not as bad as you might think because I've always been of the opinion that automatic writing gives you what you want and what you're looking for. So it doesn't surprise me from that point of view. I would have been a lot more surprised if you actually found a whacking great sacristy there. Becky? Wow, dare I say, I actually feel quite disappointed to be really honest, because a part of me really wanted to find something. Oh, well, a part of you just may be right because there is something intriguing. You see 7/8ths of the way along this wall we have this gap here. And can you see this lighter blue there? Geophysicists say that could possibly be a wall, in which case, there could be a little room there. No one's putting any money on it. Mm-hmm. A small sacristy, perhaps. A small sacristy, perhaps. So what you found for us is, in fact, the ghost of a sacristy. We have found the ghost. So no hidden sacristies. No proof that those bones actually belong to the Abbot. And according to the parapsychologist, automatic writing's nothing more than a twitch of the wrist We certainly had a good hit rate with the excavations, but that could've been more luck than judgment. I specified those automatic writings 'cause half of me thinks it's a load of complete nonsense. But on the other hand, I had an experience when I did automatic writing that I just can't explain. Oh, you remember that bone that they thought was the Abbot's, but it turned out to be an animal? Yeah. In the automatic writing, I wrote down "a top pig." What did the osteoarchaeologist say, what kind of bone is it? Well, I asked her and she said that it's a medium-sized mammal. Is a pig a medium-sized mammal? Well, I suppose so. Suppose so? Yes. That's scary. Ta-da-da-ta-da-da.