Hk2013 Satsang 2

Participant -- so when you attribute so many physical and metaphysical attributes to each plex (chakra), when you meditate, do you really have to meditate on those? Or just let it go up and down, I mean, do not worry about the plexes, do not worry about the this thing. Which is the right thing to do? Sir -- both are right. The thing is that first to do -- when you start with kriya for instance, you are talking in reference to kriya. Do the kriya pranayama, you have not to worry about the centre because you need to clean up the system first. After you have cleaned up the system and the teacher is sure that now you are ready, the channel is open. This we can discuss in private but we cannot discuss (publicly here). Then, after that, if and when required depending on the person, the chakradharana will be taught. That is the time when you should do. Participant -- when you are doing kriya, how do you know what you are doing is the correct thing? Sir -- depend on what I say, there is no other way. Participant -- one tries to do what you have told, but how does one know by oneself that one is doing the right thing or not? Sir -- you have to check with me. There is no other way. But one thing, while you are doing, is your mind settling down? If it is settling down even a little bit then you are on the right track. When you do it, do you feel something nice abaout it, or are you still disturbed? So these are the things that one has to work out, figure out. That is how, when you do your kriya, you feel a nice sensation in your system. You actually feel some joy in doing it then you are on the right track. There is no other way. Sometimes in the depths of meditation as you improve, you may see some light or you may hear some sound or you may see that your absorption level has increased. And generally you feel calmer. Then in the higher stages, you might feel nice smell sometimes. But check up, may be the neighbor is lighting an agarbatti. But if you ruled in out then, sitting quietly, there is nothing there and then you feel specially if you fix you attention on the tip of your nose, some nice smell comes. These are all just sign posts. They are not so important. Sign post to assure the practitioner something is there. if you do not feel, it does not matter. Some people feel some do not feel. Participant -- sir, what is the sign that this cleansing has taken place. Sir -- one is that you are able to center yourself when you sit down and meditate. No disturbance. You can switch on and switch off when you like. The other is that you enjoy your meditation. There is a joy coming because finally we are all looking for joy. We are not looking for unhappiness. If the joy is welling up in your heart. Sometimes, some tears come into your eyes. You know when you listen to devotional songs, something nice happens to you then you are on the track. Apart from that, in higher stages of meditation you begin to hear sounds and sights. But the most important sign is that you become a better human being. Otherwise all these things are irrelevant. You become a better human being, less self-centered. You become kind. If somebody has pain, you feel the pain and you want to do something about it. These are the more permanent and more important signs. Some people are very sensitive to certain psychic. Such people may see lights or hear, see some visions -- that is not necessary for everyone. Stability of mind -- to be able to withstand all circumstances equally and tranquilly. Sthitha Prajna is the first proof that we are moving forward. Otherwise you may see numerous visions but you are still the same person then one is not moving forward. Participant -- when you meditate do you.... Sir -- I will discuss it again later but there are many ways to meditate. The simplest way is to bow down first. Bowing down is first prostrating before the teacher. The supreme guru is of course GOD himself. It also helps in improving the circulation in your head area when you bow down. We never bow down, we always stand. So the circulation is more down here. So bow down, it actually improves your system. That is why people who keep bowing down usually move forward in life (laughter...). Joking but in a way it helps. Then, after that, sit quietly. Close your eyes. Simple way of meditating. Do not control your breath, watch your breath. Just be aware of it as it come in and goes out. Normally we are not conscious of our breath. Become conscious. See it coming in. see it going out. Watch for some time. When you do that for some time, you will feel like giving a deep sigh automatically. That's begun. Meditation has begun after that. You are sure it is relaxed. At that point, there are two things you can do. Either continue to watch and be aware of your breath or fix your attention in your heart or between the eyebrows. Depends on the person. For some people this works better, for some this works better. And then wherever you have fixed you attention, keep your attention there. Think of a beautiful little lotus, white lotus or golden lotus, again depends on the person -- some people love red lotus -- keep it there. Just fix your attention there in your mind chanting OM. That you can chant OM loudly during times. Then become silent. Lotus has gone, chanting and everything has gone. You are just aware of what is going on. Sit like that for a while. This is a good way to start. Now suppose you have any ista devta. Then at that point, when the mind is calm, you have watched your breath for some time, fix that figure of your ista devta in your heart. Engage yourself in looking after it in some way. You cannot always meditate like that, the mind may wander. So instead of that, engage in an activity like cleaning him up, and giving clothes, giving a flower -- if you have an ista devta. If you do not want to have a form, that is okay. You can just look at the light or the lotus. Participant -- while I was sitting meditating, sitting quietly, I was getting the picture of Siva. Sir -- good. You should stay with that. I think Siva is your ishta. Stay with it. There is some connection. Also may be because of my connection also because I am sitting here. But then when you get a picture, completely give attention to it. Head to toe give complete attention. Try to follow the details. Participant -- sir what exactly is meditation? How would you define meditation? Sir -- this she asked me - what is meditation? Participant -- not the procedure or what to do. But what is the purpose ? Sir -- can we do this in the evening satsang? Many other people will benefit by it. Because there are so many things. Once there was a talk on meditation by Krishnamurthy in Madras in Vasant Vihar. So you know how he is. It is like the neti neti business of Shankara. Mercilessly cutting away all our support. His idea was not to have a support. Demolish everything. So he was doing that process of Siva's tandava, demolishing everything. And anybody said, this is meditation, he would give reasons why it is not. And japa was eliminated, pranayama, everything was eliminated. Finally, nothing what we call meditation remained in his definition. There was no definition. By the time it was beautiful evening. The sun was almost setting, the birds were flying in Vasant Vihar. Everything was quiet and everyone was quiet wondering now.. it was such a beautiful meditation. Suddenly in the middle in the front row, someone stood up and said -- then sir, what is meditation? Krishnamurthy said -- oh GOD, what a generation! [ laughter... ] .. It (neti neti) is a very old vedantic procedure actually. He was just following it in a modern language. From the highest point of view, when everything is eliminated, what remains is the Truth. That which cannot be negated any more. But he went about it in his own modern way not in the traditionally. neti-neti is the word (traditionally) used. Participant -- He (Krishnamurthy) says there should be no influence on your thought. Sir -- possible. In fact, your thought cannot be without any influence. If I discuss this only few people will. Anyway, the thing is that if you watch carefully, you cannot think without a language. We are asking the question -- is there a thought without language? It is a question. We are saying there is. Participant -- Sir, this seeing of the truth, is that with the thought or without? I do not know whether I am using the right word. Sir -- normally all thought is made up of language. We cannot have a single thought without a language or the other. So all the thing we normally call thought is based on, defined by, conditioned and confined by language, by words. And whenever there is a word, it has a name, nama. Whenever there is a nama, there is a rupa, someway. But take for instance something like music. Not vocal because vocal has words, say beautiful instrumental music. Is there a language? Are there words? Are there meanings? Pure - lets hear Beethoven symphony - It is only music! There is no language, there is just music. And your mind is fully absorbed in it. So, there is some kind of thought without words, without language. I am just giving you a simple example. What we are talking about is in the higher sense of the term. Or when you suddenly get a deep feeling. It could be a deep feeling of devotion or anger. In that deep feeling for split second, there is no word. It is just a strong feeling. That is also thought because it is coming from thinking. But it has not yet conjured up a language. So, we are saying that there is a thought or there is awareness which does not have to be ordinary thought connected to language with its chain reaction. Participant -- but the moment you try describing it? Sir -- gone! That is true. The moment you start describing it, put into words, it is gone but without putting into words, you cannot convey it. But when you convey, the person who hears it should understand that this is merely a conveying. This is not the truth. Like in the Upanishad - Yad vaachaa nabhyuditham yena vaag abhyudyate -- that which words cannot describe. But because of which words will develop the capacity of description. That alone is the truth. Nothing that you adore here -- says the Keno Upanishad. Very merciless. More merciless than Krishnamurthy. nedam yadidam upAsate -- nothing that your worship here. And this is 2000 years ago. Shruti. Nothing that you adore here -- that alone is the truth, understand. Upanishad -- not me. Yad vaachaa nabhyuditham yena vaag abhyudyate - that which words cannot understand or describe but because of which we get the capacity to understand words. Know that to be the truth. tadeva brahma tvam viddh -- understand o disciple, there is that only reality. Nedam yadidam upaasate -- nothing that you are here. Now this sounds more than Krishnamurthy! Participant -- Sir, this recognition of truth, without words, is that with the thought or without thought? Sir -- the thing is, it is to be done. Not to be discussed. In the sense that we get filled up with so many discussions and thoughts and literature that we have read, this khichdi we have created from various sources that the truth is lost sight of very easily. Because we live with words. So, simple villager sometimes knows the truth. He has not read the Vedas, nothing. That simplicity has to now come and it is so difficult because we are so complicated. Like the example of a professor -- very learned -- all the Buddhist terminologies -- Mahayana, hinayana. Sometimes you fill so much inside that there is no space. So this professor goes to see a great zen master. These zen masters are like our avadhootas. They are supposed to be quite eccentric. Nobody knows what they are doing the next minute. Because they have broken out of structures. They do not have a structure. So he goes to him. Goes to the zen master and says, 'Please teach me how to attain 'satori''. Satori means moksha according to Zen terminology. Freedom! 'Teach me how to practice zen and attain 'satori'' The master keeps quiet now. Then he goes inside and starts making tea. So this fellow is thinking, 'What is this guy doing now? I am asking him something so serious and he is making tea!' (and) You cant say anything because you don't know Zen masters. If you say another word, he might kick you out. So he was waiting patiently. So he (the Zen master) comes back, puts a small table. You know how Japanese are so elaborate. He puts a small table, covers it nicely with a cloth and puts the tea. Puts a cup there and the master starts pouring tea. So he is sitting. Tea goes and the cup is full. He (master) continues to pour. After some time, the tea starts dripping down from the table cloth. Then he can't control himself any more. He says, 'Sir, the tea is overflowing!' So the master tells - turns to him and says - 'Your cup is overflowing, how can I give you Zen?' (laughter...) whatever I give will come out. You see, it is already full. So there is no space. Theories, Facts! Participant -- we have to empty the cup. Sir -- what happens is - that also becomes an idea sometimes. Empty. Then we are stuck to it empty it, empty it. Then we are only... Thiruvanamalai (if) you will go; You will find lots of people sitting inside and chanting, 'Who am I, who am I, who am I'; This is no way to find out who you are. This is a formula not a mantra. Participant -- they are doing a japa of 'who am I'. Sir -- yes. You say who am I, how will you find out who you are. It is like a japa. If you simply wear a kaupin and sit like Ramana Maharishi and say, 'Who am I', you do not become Ramana Maharishi. And he never practiced anything. He just found out one day. You know Ramana Maharishi. He was just a young man of 14 or 15 when he suddenly felt one day while lying down in his room -- he was not practicing anything or reading anything. He was going to school and coming back like a normal -- he suddenly felt that he is dying. Fear of death, actual death! He felt that he is dead. Then he said, 'I am dead but I am alive'. He saw that his body was dead, immovable but he had not died. It is an experience. You cannot describe it. Somebody who does not have that experience cannot verbalize it. So that was a complete conviction which he got. Not through any practice or reading or anything. Nothing! In fact, not having read anything was a great help, I think. Otherwise you will think this must be that state or this state or this Samadhi. He was clear. So that time he became a Maharishi actually. It took some time to mature of course to get into that. He said, 'I am the source from where all these things come which is real', and went into his heart center and remained there. And after some years he came out. I mean that is all. Later on in life, when people came to him and read the Upanishads. He would say -- aha -- this is what I felt. Not, you see the reverse. Otherwise, you read and you feel something and you say this must be that. Here it was spontaneous and then he said that this is probably what I felt. But that is because of his previous births. Suddenly somebody does not become like that. So for rest of us, we have to start. We all have a past. At some time or the other in some past life we would have been terrible people. Who knows. Even Valmiki was a dacoit. Then he became a Rishi. So, cant say. So you see somebody who you think is the worst sort of fellow, the basest type of a man or woman - you should think, one day they may become a saint. Who knows?