George R.r. Martin Makes Veronica Faint - Sword & laser ep. 6

[COMPUTERIZED VOICE] Sword and Laser. VERONICA BELMONT: Hello, everyone. And welcome to the Sword and Laser. I'm Veronica Belmont. TOM MERRITT: And I'm Tom Merritt. VERONICA BELMONT: And I'm about to pee myself. TOM MERRITT: Oh, is it because we're wrapping up Tigana? I mean, I like the book but-- VERONICA BELMONT: No. I'm Looking forward to that conversation, but that's not why. TOM MERRITT: It's because it's our Game of Thrones special. VERONICA BELMONT: You're getting a little bit closer, yes. You're getting a little bit closer. TOM MERRITT: It is because we have George RR freaking Martin on the show? VERONICA BELMONT: [SIGHS] TOM MERRITT: I suppose we ought to get to the Quick Burns. Can you speak from down there? VERONICA BELMONT: Wish you could live out the adventures of Wade Owen in Ernest Cline's Ready Player One? Well, Mr. Cline is indulging you. He's hidden an Easter Egg in the text of both the hardcover and paperback editions of Ready Player One. The clues will lead you to a chain of increasingly difficult video game challenges. And the first to complete all the challenges wins a 1981 DeLorean, complete with a flux capacitor. TOM MERRITT: I want to win that. Are we disqualified? VERONICA BELMONT: Probably. TOM MERRITT: Oh. All caught up on a Song of Ice and Fire and the Game of Thrones HBO series? How about investigating some of George RR Martin's older works? Three new audio books are in production read by the actors from the HBO series. Ron Donachie, aka Ser Rodrik, will read the historical horror novel Fever Dream. Lady Stark, aka Michelle Fairley, voices the sci-fi adventure novel Wind Haven. And Iain Glen, whom may know as Ser Jorah Mormont, will read Martin's first novel, Dying of the Light. No release date is set yet. But then again, there's also no release date for this video game either, Medal of Hodor. I want that to be real. VERONICA BELMONT: I wish that was real more than-- TOM MERRITT: There'd be a lot of carrying. VERONICA BELMONT: --anything else. Yeah. Yes. That's not too exciting, is it, I guess. Whatever. And finally, we are excited to have Rob Reid, author of Year Zero, on our show next time. What's Year Zero about? Well, Random House has a trailer that helps to explain that for every you. NARRATOR: Every advanced civilization in the universe is part of the Refined League. All of them are obnoxiously advanced, peaceful, and, well, refined. Refined aliens can cross galaxies in an instant. Their artwork, architecture, and decoupage are so brilliant that human minds can barely process their beauty. But there's one thing they can't do. [RECORD SCRATCHES] Aliens suck at music. And we don't. In fact, we make the universe's best music by far. And everyone knows it but us. They've known it since they first discovered us back in the '70s. American pop music was immediately identified as the greatest creative achievement since the Big ***. The entire universe has done nothing but ecstatically contemplate our music ever since. They've copied it, shared it, transmitted it, and copied it some more. Then finally, just a few weeks ago, the Refined aliens started getting back to their normal lives. Politicians started governing again. Accountants started accounting again. Most significantly, alien anthropologists began studying other aspects of human society. And that's when it hit them. They owe us an ungodly amount of money. You see, America has the universe's harshest copyright laws. And the aliens have been pirating our music for decades. It was completely unintentional. But the universe is bankrupt all the same. Everything in it and all of its wealth belongs to humanity. And everyone knows it but us. Certain aliens are not entirely amused. And only one man can stop them from exacting revenge. Can he save the world, get the girl? He better, or else. It's Year Zero, a new novel by Rob Reid. TOM MERRITT: You know, Rob's the guy who started the Rhapsody music service. VERONICA BELMONT: Mmm. I'm seeing some parallels TOM MERRITT: He knows from music. VERONICA BELMONT: Very cool. We're excited to have him in studio on the next episode. TOM MERRITT: I know. VERONICA BELMONT: Going to be a lot of fun. TOM MERRITT: Real live human. Time for another Whiteboard Review from Aaron. This time, he encourages you not to fear HP Lovecraft. I mean, be scared of the story, just don't be afraid to read it. I'll let Aaron explain. AARON: HP Lovecraft is a big name in horror and fantasy. But it can be tough to find an entry point into his work. Start with The Dunwich Horror and Others. Lovecraft's writing is famously tough. But here, that dense language is wrapped around engaging stories which move fairly fast for Lovecraft. The title story is a moody piece about a rural family and black magic. Others feature genre standards like pirate ghosts, haunted pictures, and a guy who thinks he hears rats in the walls. OK. They can't all be winners. But if you've heard about Lovecraft and you want to know what the fuss is about, The Dunwich Horror is an excellent place to get your feet wet, or whatever you use for feet. TOM MERRITT: You know, it's less scary on the whiteboard. VERONICA BELMONT: It's a lot less scary. I'd like them to do a Prometheus whiteboard. I'm too scared to watch the movie. TOM MERRITT: I bet you can do it. VERONICA BELMONT: I passed out watching District 9, so I'm pretty sure that if I-- TOM MERRITT: You passed out? VERONICA BELMONT: Just like that. I pass out a lot, apparently. TOM MERRITT: You apparently have a problem. VERONICA BELMONT: I think maybe I'm-- TOM MERRITT: You should get your circulation checked. VERONICA BELMONT: Anyhow, send us in your videos, and you could be on the show next time. And we'll send you a package of prizes, including books and stickers. Just upload your message to your favorite video hosting provider, like YouTube, for example, and email the link to us at feedback@swordandlaser.com. TOM MERRITT: Coming up, we discuss Game of Thrones philosophy with Henry Jacoby, premier Paul and Storm's new GRRM-related music video, "Write like the Wind," and see if Veronica passes out when we speak with George RR Martin himself. Don't go anywhere. VERONICA BELMONT: And welcome back to Sword and Laser where we're extremely excited to have the author of the "Dunk and Egg" stories and of course the entire Song of Ice and Fire series. And no, we're not going to ask him who his favorite characters are or when the next book will be done. It'll be done when he finishes writing it. But we have a lot of other great questions. So welcome to Mr. George RR Martin. Thank you so much for being on the show. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: It's my pleasure. I'm glad to be here. TOM MERRITT: We're big fans of the Song of Ice and Fire series and all your writing, to be honest. So it's a pleasure to have you. Our first question comes from our Goodreads forum. They want to know, "I'm curious about your character creation process. Do you decide beforehand the ways you want your character to change and evolve? Or do you come up with the character and let the character sort of inform you about how it evolves as you write the story?" GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: It's kind of bit of both. Certainly, when we're speaking of the major characters at least, I know their main function in a story. I have a general idea of the broad arc of their character from the first book through the last book. But at the same time, the characters do sometimes seem to have a mind of their own. And when you're actually writing the stories and you're writing a scene, suddenly it's almost as if the character is real in some sense. You're writing a scene, you're writing dialogue and a character says something that is completely right for the character, but that you hadn't really anticipated ahead of time. You hadn't known he was going to say that. And suddenly the scene goes off of a strange direction that you could not have predicted. And you wind up in a different place than you thought were going to wind up. Now, admittedly, sometimes that's a mistake. The characters are treacherous sons of [BLEEP] and they will lead you down dead ends and into the swamp and other places that you don't want to go. So sometimes you have to go back and discipline them and make them behave. But other times, the characters will lead you to treasures and you will come up with something that you could never have anticipated when you were just sort of envisioning the story in broad strokes and something that's much richer and more interesting than what you originally started with. TOM MERRITT: Are any your characters more unruly than others? GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: You know, they've all been unruly from time to time. I know Cat has given me a few curveballs, from time to time. Tyrion. But really, everybody. VERONICA BELMONT: Anne on Goodreads wants to know, "I would like to know whether he intended our favorite and least characters to be perceived as such." Do you think are any characters that have kind of changed from you intending them to be maybe not one of the more likable characters that kind of surprised you? GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Well, I don't know if I'd use the word surprised, but it is interesting to see the different reactions to the characters that are out there. The popularity of some minor characters sometimes surprises me. And I'm talking about very minor characters. I've had people come up to me at conventions and say their favorite character is Tytos Blackwood. Tytos Blackwood has like three lines in the entire five books. And he has a really cool cloak made of raven feathers. I think that's probably why people like him, or something like that. But that's a bit of what writers call the Boba Fett syndrome, where I think some readers attach themselves to characters who have something cool about them, but there's really a lot that you don't know about them. So the reader can imagine all the things that he likes best on this character, who's essentially a blank slate with a few cool accoutrements or attitudes. But Bronn is another character who's become very popular. I am sometimes surprised by the reactions of women in particular to some of the villains. The-- TOM MERRITT: Bad boy syndrome? GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: --number of women over the years who have written me that their favorite characters are Jaime Lannister or Sandor Clegane, The Hound, or Theon Greyjoy. All of these are deeply troubled individuals with some very dark sides who have done some very dark things. But nonetheless, they do draw this response, and quite heavily, I think, in the case of some of them, from my female readers, in particular. VERONICA BELMONT: I'm a big fan of The Hound myself, actually. TOM MERRITT: Of Sandor? Really? VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah. The Hound. And maybe it's not because I feel any compassion towards them. I'm not really sure what the attraction is. I'm not going to call it attraction, actually. Let's just say it's a fascination, perhaps. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Well, fascination is one thing. But some of these letters indicate that there really is a romantic attraction going on there. And I do know there's all these people out there who are, as they call themselves, the SanSan fans, who want to see Sandor and Sansa get together at the end. So that's interesting, too. TOM MERRITT: The TV show has sort of played with that a little and probably stoked those fires, I would think. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, sure. And I've played with it in the books. TOM MERRITT: Yeah, yeah. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: There's something there. But it's still interesting to see how many people have responded to it. VERONICA BELMONT: I'm not going to say that that hasn't crossed my mind. Maybe I need to go join one of those fan sites and learn more. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: The other, of course, interesting thing is the negative reactions that you get to some characters who, to my mind, don't necessarily deserve such a strong negative reaction, particularly characters who are themselves perfectly nice. But I think if they're a threat to one of the characters that the people have already decided is their favorite, I don't know, you get some interesting reactions. But it is a fascinating process. And what I take pride in as a writer, what gives me great satisfaction is that people are reacting to all of these characters. Whether they love them, whether they hate them, they care about them. And they're reacting to them as if they were real people, just as you would if you met 20 new people and you were thrown into them in some setting, like on an island. And in a couple weeks you'd hate some, and you'd like some, and some you wouldn't be so sure about. But your reactions would not necessarily be the reactions of the next person. And to my mind, that's an indication that if you have created characters who have some basis in reality. If you create a character and everybody likes them, you probably created a piece of cardboard. And similarly, if you've created a character and everybody hates them, then they don't have their reality. And people's reactions to real people are much more complex, much more layered, and much more contradictory at times. So that's what I'm striving for is to make these characters as real as I can. And so I like the complexity of the reactions. I like the fact that my readers debate who are the good guys, who are the bad guys, which characters they want to kill and which characters they want to marry and so forth and so on. TOM MERRITT: TerpKristin wants to know of the non-Song of Ice and Fire universes you've written in, which one would you like to revisit the most? GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: You know, that's hard to say. I have considerable affection for a lot of my older work. Of course, The Wild Cards universe is one I still revisit regularly. Wild Cards has been going longer than Ice and Fire and is still going. We've just signed a contract for the 23rd book in the series. I've just signed contracts for a British deal and a French deal. So I think Wild Cards is going to be going for a long time. I wish I had a little more time, because I have some Wild Card characters that I've created that I would really like to write some stories about. But with Ice and Fire, I just don't have the time to do it. So while I'm still doing Wild Cards, for the most part, I'm simply editing it, and I'm not able to write it. My old science fiction universe, The Thousand Worlds, I'd like to write more about that. At one point I had a sequel to Fever Dream in mind, which I'd like to do some days. But at the same time, I'm also always coming up with new ideas. So people do ask me what I'm going to write when Ice and Fire is finally finished, and the truth is, any answer I give now would be meaningless. Because it's going to take me years to finish Ice and Fire. And by the time I do finish it, I'll be a different person and may have had a dozen new ideas. And it's whatever idea I am most in love with, whatever book I most want to write when that time actually comes. VERONICA BELMONT: Levi wants to know if there any changes from the novel to the show that you regret, or to add a new spin on it, that you really liked. Any changes that you made for the show that you said, oh, actually that works a little bit better. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Well, the show is quite faithful to the books, for the most part. But David and Dan, David Benioff and Dan Weiss, the showrunners, it's really their baby. They have a very difficult job of trying to tell my story within 10 hours with the limitations of budget and all that. So I understand why many of the changes that are made are made. We look at my own episode of "The Battle of the Blackwater," episode nine of season two. That was a spectacular episode. I'm very, very pleased by the way that episode came out. Nonetheless, would I have liked more? Sure, I would have liked more. I'm very greedy. I would have liked to have the great chain across the harbor. I would like to have the trebuchets the three great trebuchets, the three ***, as they were called, throwing the Antler Men across the river to smash into bloody-- VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: --smithereens upon their ships. I would have liked to have the ships, the two great fleets, crashing into each other with the oars going and the ships breaking each other apart and locking together to form that bridge of ships that Stannis' men came streaming across from the other bank. I would have liked to have horses. Knights, of course, historically were mounted warriors, and they rode horses. And we don't have so many horses on the show, because horses are, number one, expensive. And, number two, they often don't do what you want them to do. So you're doubling and tripling the time required to get a shot, because the horse turned the wrong way when he was supposed to turn the other way, et cetera. So I would have liked to have had all of this. But if we had added all of to "The Battle of Blackwater Bay," we'd still be shooting it. And it would cost as much-- TOM MERRITT: That would be the whole season. Yeah. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: --as one of the Lord of the Rings movies. And it would've been impossible. So you have to take reality into account. That being said, I think in terms of new material, the books are written with a stripped viewpoint structure. I have a certain number of viewpoint characters. Everything you see and hear is through their eyes. So if the viewpoint character is not present, you don't see what's going on. Now that's not necessarily to suggest that nothing is going on. Lots of things are going on. It's not like the whole world stops when a viewpoint character isn't present. So David and Dan, who are working in a medium that does not have the capacity for doing viewpoints as prose does, have opened it up. And they've inserted scenes, like the scene between Robert and Cersei in season one where they discuss their marriage, no viewpoint character is present in that. Cersei is not a viewpoint character until book four. Robert is never viewpoint character. Some of the scenes between Varys and Littlefinger, both in season one and season two. Neither of these characters is a viewpoint character. So if Varys is meeting secretly with Littlefinger, you're never going to find out about it in the books unless I hide one of my characters in a curtain. The wonderful tavern scene in "Blackwater Bay," which was added by David and Dan with the confrontation between Bronn and The Hound, again not from the books. Not a scene I could ever do, because there's no viewpoint character present. But I think all of those were terrific scenes and great additions to the story. VERONICA BELMONT: I think that's one thing I love about the show so much is I think initially a lot of us were watching the show and nitpicking almost about things that were different from the books in a way, just because we're such big fans. And that's just what nerds do. That's what we do. But then after while, we started saying this is almost like additional content, stuff we never would have seen from the books. It's still following the same storyline. It's still dealing with the same great characters. But now we get all this new content in a way. And I think that's really cool. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: I'm very much of the nerd persuasion myself, of course. Much as I enjoyed The Avengers movie, and I did, the nerd in me is still saying, where was Ant-Man. I want Ant-Man. He was one of the founders of The Avengers. Get Ant-Man in there. VERONICA BELMONT: Maybe we'll get an Ant-Man origin story movie at some point. Who knows? GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: We should. They're supposed to be working on a Ant-Man movie. VERONICA BELMONT: Yes. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Well, George, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. We really enjoy your work. GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Good luck with your show. TOM MERRITT: Thank you. Stay with us. More Game of Thrones goodness coming with Henry Jacoby. Also, the world premiere of Paul and Storm's music video. And we wrap up Tigana. In the game of Sword and Laser, you keep watching or you die. Or at least you get really sad. [COMPUTERIZED VOICE] Sword and Laser. VERONICA BELMONT: Welcome back to Sword and Laser. Time to wrap up Tigana, look at the fantastic books being released in the next two weeks, and premiere Paul and Storm's musical plea to George RR Martin. But first, we chatted earlier today with Henry Jacoby, author of Game of Thrones and Philosophy, Logic Cuts Deeper Than Swords. What can we learn about humanity from the inhumane actions of some of Martin's characters? Thanks, Henry for joining us. Can you give us an overview of the book? HENRY JACOBY: Yes. Thanks for having me on. Well, the book is part of the Wiley-Blackwell series on philosophy and pop culture. And the aim of the series is to introduce philosophy to the general public. We think philosophy's good for you, and so we want expose as many people as possible to philosophical ideas. And this particular book, we use the TV series, Game of Thrones and the books on which it's based, the Song of Ice and Fire series. And we those as our examples when we discuss various philosophical issues. TOM MERRITT: Do I have to know a lot about philosophy? Do I have to have read Kant or something? Or can I just dive in? HENRY JACOBY: No, not at all. Not at all. That's the point of these. Most people aren't going to go into a bookstore and pick up a copy of Kant or Aristotle or someone like that. But they will read a book like this because they're interested in Game of Thrones. But yeah, this presupposes no knowledge of philosophy at all. VERONICA BELMONT: So other than just its popularity, what about Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire made you and the publisher say, this needs a closer look? HENRY JACOBY: Well, there's a couple things I could say, a lot of things. I had worked with Wiley before. I had edited their book on House and the TV show House, and I wanted to do another book. And the books are a lot of work, and they take a of time. So it had to be something that I was really passionate about and excited about. And it had to also be something that the publishers were excited about too. That always doesn't go together. And in the fall of 2010, I read that HBO was going to be doing this series, Game of Thrones. And I had not yet read the books, and I started investigating them. And everyone was raving about how great these books are. So I started reading, and then I was instantly hooked. And then I started pestering the people at Wiley every day saying, we got to do this book. We got to do this book. And they were interested in doing it. And finally when the show came on, they gave the go ahead. But anyway, that's how it came about. But why I wanted to do it about this particular one is George Martin has created such a wonderful world, so rich and filled with incredible characters who are so interesting. They're morally ambiguous characters. And they're just fun and smart. And this whole world just cries out for more thought. The philosophical issues just jump out at you. There's, of course, all the Machiavellian kind of social and political stuff going on. And there's all the ethical issues. And there's the stuff about the wars and prophecy and our free will. And there's all the magic and supernatural creatures and the gods they worship. So there's just so many things for a philosopher to sink his teeth into. It's really wonderful. TOM MERRITT: TerpKristen on our Goodreads forum wanted to know, "Obviously some of the topics you delve into are applicable to the society at large. Do you try to make any larger revelations or statements about society and the current world?" HENRY JACOBY: No. We really don't do a lot of that. That's really not the kind of book it is. But having said that, a lot of the chapters in the book defend a certain philosophical point of view. And that conclusion that's defended is meant to apply to the real world too. Let me give you a couple quick examples. For instance, if you're talking about the relationship between morality and happiness and you ask the question, can an immoral person really be happy? Well, you start talking about some characters from Game of Thrones, like Cersei, for example, and you draw some conclusions. But the conclusions that are drawn are meant to be general conclusions about the relationship between morality and happiness. Or take another example, one of the chapters argues that chivalry's a bad idea, that it's not good for women. And if that's true, then it's also true that it's not good for women in our world as well. To take one more example that I think illustrates the kind of thing we want our readers to get from the book, there's a chapter on the nature of a just war. And so the chapter lists different criteria that must be met in order for war to be considered a just war. And then he looks at whether Robb's war, in particular, meets those conditions. But we would hope that someone reading that chapter would not only then think about whether Robb's war is just, but they would also use those ideas to think about some wars in our world too. TOM MERRITT: Huge thanks to Henry for taking the time to chat with us. If you'd like to hear more from Mr. Jacoby, pick up his book, Game of Thrones and Philosophy, Logic Cuts Deeper Than Swords. Or we'll have a bonus interview with him next time. VERONICA BELMONT: Yes. And now it's time for a spoiler alert as we wrap up Tigana. [SIRENS SOUND] VERONICA BELMONT: So I finished Tigana today. TOM MERRITT: Wow. So it's fresh in your mind. VERONICA BELMONT: It is definitely fresh in my mind. TOM MERRITT: OK. The big criticism on our Goodreads forum was the flowery language. What did you think of the writing? VERONICA BELMONT: Well, we talked a little bit about this in the first episode when we kicked it off, because we'd both started reading at it. And I loved his writing style. I thought it was fantastic. But I feel like people who were really into Hyperion and the way that Dan Simmons writes will also probably be a little more accepting of the way Guy Gavriel Kay writes his books as well. Because they have a similar kind of style where they really elaborate on the scenery, on what's going on in the characters' minds, on every little nuance of that particular chapter. So if you like that kind of flowery, over the top, maybe, prose, then I think that you'll definitely enjoy this book. But people who like a more straightforward approach, it may not be for them. TOM MERRITT: And usually I'm that kind of person. I like a Vonnegut. I like somebody who is tight with their writing and gets right to the point. I still love Guy Gavriel Kay. Now it took a little while for me to get into it, as I mentioned last time. But once we got the plot going, I didn't mind the long descriptions. It helped me immerse myself. But I needed that action to suck me in first. So it took me a while. I think some people were less patient. VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah. A lot of people in the Goodreads forums lemmed this pretty early, like before chapter five. TOM MERRITT: Sorry. VERONICA BELMONT: Sorry, Lem. No offense. They couldn't get past some of the early introductions, like with Devin's story, for example. Because we kind of jump into Devin's story. We get his whole childhood backstory before we really care enough about him to want to know all of those details. So I think that put some people off. They were like, this is a little bit too much information for me not really caring about this character yet. And it also kicked off the storylines of a lot of different characters that we didn't pick back up on for a while too. So there was a sense of disconnect, I think, from the early chapters to what we get later on in the book. TOM MERRITT: I don't mind introducing new characters wholesale when we shifted perspective entirely to the island and we started to get Dianora's story. That was fine. I don't mind that at all. But I do want the early descriptions and delving into characters to pay off later. And there is a sense that maybe Devin's character isn't going to get his due. But I think he does in the end. VERONICA BELMONT: Does he? TOM MERRITT: Well, we definitely get a payoff to his story. He isn't as integral to the story. And I think that's what a lot of people reacted to. VERONICA BELMONT: That is interesting. Because you start off with Devin feeling as though he is a main character. And he is absolutely a main character. TOM MERRITT: And the story ends with him, too. VERONICA BELMONT: It does end with him. But I think the central characters in this book were really-- even though we didn't have a point of view perspective from Alessan. Dianora, I think, was absolutely probably one of the top characters for me. Baerd, I loved him as a character. And their interplay was interesting too. Obviously we've come back full circle to this whole *** discussion, which happened the very first time we talked about a Song of Ice and Fire and talked about Games of Thrones, the very first book in that series. TOM MERRITT: Obviously. VERONICA BELMONT: And I don't know if that paid off. There was a thread in Goodreads about whether the sex scenes and whether the *** storyline between Baerd and Dianora came to any sort of conclusion that was worth it. Did we need those scenes? I'm all for having a sexy scene every once in a while in a book-- check out my other podcast, Vaginal Fantasy-- but there didn't seem to be a reason for it. It didn't seem to move the plot forward at all. We just get a lot of guilty feelings from Baerd and Dianora about it. TOM MERRITT: And that's a really interesting point. Because when that scene between Dianora and Baerd was played out, I thought, OK, I don't really love this. But it obviously is going to be integral in some way. There's going to be some definitive reason why we're learning all of this backstory. And when we got to the point at the end of the book-- and this is huge spoilers, if you're wading into this-- we get to the point at the end of the book when Dianora has gone off, given the instructions to relate her story, and it's not related. And so Baerd doesn't know that was Dianora. Doesn't have that connection. I'm actually OK with that, in and of itself. I kind of feel like instead of a pat, expected ending, it's like oh, we're left, like in real life, with something that just doesn't work out the way it's supposed to. And I'm fine. I feel good for Baerd that he's not going to have these conflicted feelings about Dianora anymore. But then I wonder, well, why did I have to know all this stuff about his past with Dianora? Was it just to build up the tension for that point? VERONICA BELMONT: Maybe. TOM MERRITT: You could have just said Baerd really missed his sister. You didn't have to go into the whole *** thing. VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah. When I got to that point in the book, the very, very end where the truth is not told, even though Dianora wanted the truth be told, and I felt like at first that I was really upset by it. I was like oh, just tell them. Why aren't you telling them? Why aren't you telling them also about Prince Valentin? I was really shocked about that, because I thought that was going to be a major plot reveal. And it doesn't happen. TOM MERRITT: I liked that too. But you didn't like, it sounds like. VERONICA BELMONT: I didn't like it at first. And then when I actually listened to the author's commentary, when I listened to Guy Gavriel Kay explain some of his motivations behind the storyline points, and it's like well, would it have done any good? Is it better this way? Yes, they don't know the true story, but would it have made it more painful for Baerd and for Alessan to know the full truth of the situation with Dianora and Braden? Sorry. I'm saying his name wrong. TOM MERRITT: Baerd VERONICA BELMONT: No, not Baerd. Brandin. TOM MERRITT: Brandin. VERONICA BELMONT: Brandin Ygrath. TOM MERRITT: Yeah. I feel like the point that Kay seemed to be trying to make-- and he says this in that commentary you're referencing-- is that the past is important, but we can overemphasize the importance of it. And what is the line that we shouldn't cross in trying to achieve our goals of remembering the past or vengeance for past wrongs? And he explores those. Should Alessan have bound the magician? Should he have done that at all? It's a violation of his rights, and he does the right thing in the end. But is that by any means necessary sort of situation? VERONICA BELMONT: No. I was kind of a jerk move to put it in PG territory. But it did serve an end. But at the end, he did come over to their side on his own free will, which was cool. More interestingly, I like to think had the Palm been left alone, had Alberico and Brandin Ygrath had stayed the two tyrants, was it really in that bad of a place? Minus the whole Tigana situation, the roads were safer because of Alberico. TOM MERRITT: Well, that's the trains run on time defense for any kind of dictator. VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah. TOM MERRITT: And I think it's less interesting with Alberico than it is with Brandin. Because Brandin almost comes all the way around, except for the curse on Tigana, to the point where you're like actually-- VERONICA BELMONT: I kind of like him. TOM MERRITT: --he does like the Palm, and Dianora has changed him. And maybe he could unite the Palm. But of course, he's still got that one last thing. He's got his revenge that he won't let go of. So nothing is ever a clear-cut situation. And that's what I like. It's more interesting that way. VERONICA BELMONT: He's a very complicated character. And I thought my favorite storyline was probably Dianora and Brandin. I think that was my favorite part of the tale. And I thought she was a great character. She was struggling so much internally with all that turmoil of missing Baerd, feeling like she had to follow through with this-- what's the word I'm looking for?-- this promise that she made to herself years and years ago to-- TOM MERRITT: The twin snakes-- VERONICA BELMONT: Yes. To assassinate-- TOM MERRITT: --around her heart. VERONICA BELMONT: --Brandin. TOM MERRITT: Do you think she should have assassinated him? VERONICA BELMONT: I don't know if at that point it would've been true to herself. So I think it worked out well in the end. I was sad when she had to kind of follow the Risekla's vision and meet her own end. But I think she was better off that way than going the route of staying on that hilltop-- TOM MERRITT: Well, she's going to end up in the ocean drowning anyway. She should have done it in the cause of defeating Brandin, right? VERONICA BELMONT: But if she had done that, none of the stuff that happened between the two tyrants fighting would have happened. TOM MERRITT: She didn't know that. VERONICA BELMONT: She didn't know that, but it was part of the, not the prophecy, I guess, but it was fate. TOM MERRITT: The balance, yeah. VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah. It was totally fate. TOM MERRITT: The one last mystery that I wish I had been resolved is why Alessan always had to have the blue wine. It's our third drink, by the way, so cheers. VERONICA BELMONT: Cheers. TOM MERRITT: Yeah. We never find that out, do we? Did I miss something? VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah, they explained it in the book. They explained it. I don't remember what the answer was, but they explained it. TOM MERRITT: All right. I'm going to have to go back, because I don't remember that. VERONICA BELMONT: There was the reason. I just can't remember it right now, because I've had three glasses of wine. TOM MERRITT: Of the blue wine, which isn't really wine. VERONICA BELMONT: Mm hmm. TOM MERRITT: Exactly. Well, that's it for this month's book pick. But the vote for our July laser pick is still going on at Goodreads. So head over there and cast your vote. In case you're looking for even more to read, let's check the calendar. On June 26, Caliban's War by James SA Corey, the sequel to Leviathan Wakes brings you a super soldier, interplanetary war, and more on that protomolecule you know and revile. VERONICA BELMONT: Also on June 26, Sky Dragons, Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey and Todd McCaffrey, the final installment in the riveting Pern saga. TOM MERRITT: And again on June 26, Edge by Koji Suzuki. California falling into the sea doesn't seem laughable anymore when the world is falling apart because of quantum instability. Particle physics and horror, I love this. VERONICA BELMONT: Moving ahead to July 3, the 29th annual collection of the year's best science fiction brings together masters of the field, like Robert Reid, Alastair Reynolds, Damien Broderick, Elizabeth Bear, Paul McAuley, and John Barnes It's the definitive must-read anthology for the year. TOM MERRITT: And finally, July 3 also brings us The Apocalypse Codex, a Laundry Files novel by Charles Stross. Computational demonologist Bob Howard is on the track for a promotion in the super secret British government agency tasked with defending the realm from occult threats. But then he gets assigned to external assets, and it all falls apart. VERONICA BELMONT: Well, that sounds boring. TOM MERRITT: Yeah. VERONICA BELMONT: Yeah. What are you gonna do? TOM MERRITT: No, actually I don't think it's going to be very boring. VERONICA BELMONT: No, you don't think so? TOM MERRITT: No. VERONICA BELMONT: Because-- TOM MERRITT: It's all falling apart! VERONICA BELMONT: --the entire plot is based on? Yes. VERONICA BELMONT: Gotcha. TOM MERRITT: Charles Stross does not do boring. VERONICA BELMONT: All right. Well, we are almost out of time. We have some thin leek soup and trenchers to go eat. But before we go, let's take a quick look at Goodreads. Hmm. That's good. TOM MERRITT: Oh, sorry. Chris has been doing some sketches while listening to the audiobook of Tigana and posted one of his sketches up on Goodreads. Nice Devin. He's hanging from the tree. VERONICA BELMONT: Upside down from the tree, trying to make himself. Taller. TOM MERRITT: If you have some artwork of your own you'd like to share, add it to the thread, goodreads.com. VERONICA BELMONT: You really shouldn't read Goodreads threads with your mouth full. TOM MERRITT: I'm sorry. I apologize. VERONICA BELMONT: It's really rude. And on a sad note, right after we recorded our last show, Ray Bradbury passed away. Tributes have been going on everywhere. And one of our favorites is Neil Gaiman reading his short story "The Man Who Forgot Ray Bradbury." TOM MERRITT: Fantastic read. VERONICA BELMONT: Hmm mmm. Which you can find on SoundCloud or over at neilgaiman.com. We've had lots of memorial threads in the Goodreads forum too. Tamahome started one where folks are sharing their favorite Bradbury short stories. If you have one to share or want a great list of stories to read, check out the thread in the Sword and Laser group at Goodreads. TOM MERRITT: Yeah. He will be greatly missed. VERONICA BELMONT: Absolutely. TOM MERRITT: Absolutely. Well, thanks everybody for watching our Game of Thrones special. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/geekandsundry. Email us, feedback@swordandlaser.com. But now, as promised, the world premiere of Paul and Storm's plea to George RR Martin, "Write Like the Wind." if you like it you can share it with friends and thumbs up it at the Geek and Sundry channel, youtube.com/geekandsundry. Enjoy everybody! VERONICA BELMONT: Mmm. [MUSIC - PAUL AND STORM, "WRITE LIKE THE WIND"] PAUL AND STORM: (SINGING) "George RR Martin, please write and write faster. You're not going to get any younger, you know. Winter is coming. I'm growing impatient, and you've still got two whole damn books left to go. So write, George, write like the wind." I curse the day that my friend ever loaned me an old dog-eared paperback called Game of Thrones. How could I know that the seed would grow into an addiction that held me right down to my bones? Now five books later, I lurk with the masses, indignant, entitled and waiting for word that the great bearded glacier has finally published 900 more pages of crack for the nerds. Why does every new verse of your song keep taking you so *** long? George RR Martin, please write and write faster. Please give us boiled leather and sigils and steel. We need our allotment of *** and intrigue and six-page descriptions of very last meal. So write, George, write like the wind. Lewis took five years to chronicle Narnia. Tolkien had 12 years, and Rowling took 10. Lucas spent nearly three decades on Star Wars, and we all know how that one turned out in the end. You're not our ***, and you're not a machine. And we don't mean to dictate how you spend your days. But please bear in mind, in the time that you've had, William Shakespeare turned out 35 frigging plays. And if you keep writing so slow, you'll hold up the HBO show. George RR Martin, please write and write faster. Because we won't stop whining until we're appeased. Crap out the chapters, and George, while you're at it, stop killing our favorite characters, please. And write, George, write like the wind. George RR Martin, please write and write faster. Before you are dead, George, please write like the wind." [COMPUTERIZED VOICE] Sword and Laser. PAUL AND STORM: (SINGING) "And write, George, write like the wind. George RR Martin, please write and write faster. Before you are dead, George, please write like the wind."